View Full Version : I hate doing this...

03-13-2004, 02:47 PM
I flop an openended str8flush draw with one overcard.

KJs on a T Q 5 board.

It's early in the tourney, first round of blinds, i still have 800 chips. Decent amount. 2 guys go all in in front of me with enough that i would be all in. We have about the same amount. I know they have at least top pair. They wouldnt do this on a draw. At least my read is that if i hit my hand, it's good. Except the K may be tainted.

Im the favorite, yet i still have to fold here.

Pisses me off. /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Would anyone call these all-ins?


Poker Jon
03-13-2004, 03:16 PM

This is a toughie. I think I would call here with two all ins in front of me. You will get paid off if your straight hits and you may have extra outs. At least one player maybe on J9, and if a King hits you may win the hand as well.

To me personally it would depend totally on my mood. Remember you are not just doubling your money but tripling your money in the first round. This would me you could bully some stacks and have a distinct advantage when the blinds go up.

Tough situation but I think I would call more often than not.


03-13-2004, 03:17 PM
Interesting. I ran some of the possible hands on pokenum.
Against AA and an idiot you are .495 to the aces .505
Against AA and KK you are actually a slight favorite. .50 to .46 for aa and .04 for KK (If he does not have your A)

You are .466 to the AA .496 if he does have your A. The kings are still dead.

The problem is you are .38 to a .60 if he has QQ or TT.

Considering some of the things I have seen people push in with, and the fact that you are almost even money against the chance to triple up... Worst case you have a 3/2 odds against you if he has QQ/TT and win 3/1 if you hit. You have the pot odds to go. (actually 2/1 pot odds)

It would depend on what game you are playing. Early in a 5 hour tournament like the Sunday $215 with a $250000 guarantee, I fold without question.

But in a $10+1 SNG that I can start another game if i bust,
Yeah, I think I push.

Doc /images/graemlins/cool.gif

03-13-2004, 03:19 PM
"They wouldnt do this on a draw"

Folding is only good if this read is not rock solid. As long as your flush will not lose to a higher flush, you should definitely call. The main reason for this is that if you are facing one strong hand (set or two pair), the other guy (witha weaker made hand) is almost dead money. I'd love to have the big chip lead here, and would be happy to go find another tourney if I bust.


03-13-2004, 04:55 PM
Hell yea I call here. You didn't specify whether it was multi or SNG, but since it's on this forum I assume SNG. Therefore you can start a new one if you bust. You're getting a big overlay here, unless someone has a better flush draw, and we can't go looking for monsters under the bed. Even if you only had a str8 draw, it's not that bad, it's close. Add to that your flush draw and possible king outs, it's a clear call. The only time I wouldn't play this is in a critical situation in a multi.


03-14-2004, 02:52 AM
It was early in the SNG. I knew no one had an A. Someone may have had a club with them or a 9. But other than that...

If i had much fewer chips (especially in relation to the blinds) i wouldve went in, but this was real early and the blinds were low.

One guy had QT the other had Q5. Cant remember if they had a club. I ended up taking 2nd in the thing.

Ill work my way down the thread and see what others say...

Thanks for the reply


03-14-2004, 03:27 AM
By folding against this set of hands, you said no to about 20-30% of your entry fee extra you could have had.