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craig r
03-09-2004, 08:32 AM
I am confused on how to figure out ROI. I thought it was the amount won divided by the amount invested. Is this incorrect. For example right now i have placed in ~41.5% of SNG's out of 159 tourns. I have invested 874.5 and profited 225.5. So would my ROI be:

225.5/874.5=25.78%

That seems low for the amount I am placing and compared to other's ROI.

Thanks for the help,

Craig R.

p.s. these are \$5 sng's

Sheriff Fatman
03-09-2004, 08:49 AM
The calculation is correct.

The proportion of 1st, 2nd and 3rd place finishes have a big effect on your ROI due to the relative size of the prizes. Therefore, 2 players with a similar % in the money figures could have very different ROI's.

For an (extreme) example, take 2 players who play 50 30+3 SnGs and each finish in the money 50% of the time. All player 1's money finishes are 1st place, all player 2's are 3rd place.

Total amount invested for each - \$33 x 50 = \$1,650.

Player 1 wins a total of \$150x25 = \$3,750. His ROI is 127%.

Player 2 wins a total of \$60x25 = \$1,500. His ROI is -9% as he hasn't covered his fees.

Two very different results from the same percentage in the money!

I would therefore think that you have a higher proportion of 2nd and 3rd places compared to the players whose stats you are referring to. You'll be surprised how quickly the ROI will increase if you can start to convert a few more of these into wins so don't despair.

Hope this helps.

Sheriff

03-09-2004, 08:55 AM
That is the correct calculation.

What's your breakdown of 1st, 2nd, 3rd finishes? Sounds to me like you're getting more 3rds and 2nds than 1sts, you want it to be the other way around.

craig r
03-09-2004, 08:56 AM
another question pertaining to this:

when i figure out the profit from each tourn for each place i would figure it like this??:

1st: 25-5.50=19.5
2nd: 15-5.5=9.50
3rd: 10-5.5=4.50

This is correct also, right? The reason I am asking is because I only have one less first than I do third place.

thanks again,

craig

craig r
03-09-2004, 08:58 AM
me exact breakdown is:

1st. 23
2nd. 19
3rd. 24

03-09-2004, 09:04 AM
That's not too bad. I think bumping your win% up 4-9% will help a lot.

Also if you're playing at Stars your ROI will be less than if you were playing on a 10 player site since the payouts are a little bit lower. However you would also most likely finish in the money more often since you're 1 person closer to the money before the tournament even starts.

craig r
03-09-2004, 09:08 AM
i play at UB right now. are the star's players easier? how is the structure different?

craig

Sheriff Fatman
03-09-2004, 09:23 AM
It doesn't matter whether you calculate profit per tournament or overall money returned less costs, the number will work out the same (your numbers are correct again).

Just to demonstrate what I was saying, suppose 5 more of your 3rd places had actually been firsts. You'd then have won money as follows:

1st 28*\$25=\$700
2nd 19*\$15=\$285
3rd 19*\$10=\$190

Total won would now be £1075, giving you an ROI of 34.36%. In other words this relatively small change would increase your existing figure by over 8.5%!

Getting a higher proportion of 1st place finishes is the key to improving your ROI. Your % in the money figure looks OK but, as my earlier example showed, it is possible to have a better figure than this and be a losing player. ROI is the key figure to work on, and converting a few more 3rds and 2nds into 1sts is the main way in which you'll achieve this.

Sheriff

eastbay
03-09-2004, 11:37 AM
[ QUOTE ]
I am confused on how to figure out ROI. I thought it was the amount won divided by the amount invested. Is this incorrect. For example right now i have placed in ~41.5% of SNG's out of 159 tourns. I have invested 874.5 and profited 225.5. So would my ROI be:

225.5/874.5=25.78%

That seems low for the amount I am placing and compared to other's ROI.

Thanks for the help,

Craig R.

p.s. these are \$5 sng's

[/ QUOTE ]

Something to keep in mind. The vast majority of people are playing with -ROI. So being +ROI is an accomplishment itself.

Second, \$5 SnGs is going to be very tough to beat due to the 20% juice. I think you're doing great, and should move to the \$10 level immediately, where the juice is "only" 10%.

eastbay

03-09-2004, 01:20 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I am confused on how to figure out ROI. I thought it was the amount won divided by the amount invested. Is this incorrect. For example right now i have placed in ~41.5% of SNG's out of 159 tourns. I have invested 874.5 and profited 225.5. So would my ROI be:

225.5/874.5=25.78%

That seems low for the amount I am placing and compared to other's ROI.

Thanks for the help,

Craig R.

p.s. these are \$5 sng's

[/ QUOTE ]

Something to keep in mind. The vast majority of people are playing with -ROI. So being +ROI is an accomplishment itself.

Second, \$5 SnGs is going to be very tough to beat due to the 20% juice. I think you're doing great, and should move to the \$10 level immediately, where the juice is "only" 10%.

eastbay

[/ QUOTE ]

If he's invested \$874.50 then obviously he isn't paying \$1 entry fee for the SnGs....

craig r
03-09-2004, 04:57 PM
UB's \$5 sng only charge .50

craig

craig r
03-09-2004, 05:00 PM
thank you guys for all of your help on this. i just need to figure out what the leaks are in my game so i can place and get 1st a few more times in relation to what i have been doing. i also think when i move up to the \$10 level i will move to stars or party.

thanks again,

craig

Sheriff Fatman
03-09-2004, 05:09 PM
To be honest, there might not be much wrong. There's a lot of luck involved once you're down to 3 players, especially if the blinds are big by then.

Like others have said, your results are good, despite what you might see from others. Keep at it and move up when you are ready.

Good luck!

Sheriff