View Full Version : How do you like this play?

03-06-2004, 06:02 PM
Party $10 sng. Early in tournament, still level one, all players have about the same amount of chips. I'm dealt A /images/graemlins/spade.gifJ /images/graemlins/club.gif in the CO. I limp in with 3 others already in the hand, 6 see the flop. Flop comes A /images/graemlins/diamond.gif10 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif3 /images/graemlins/spade.gif I'm last to act and it's checked to me. I make a pot sized bet of 100. I often will make a bet this size almost hoping that a diamond draw will call me. My plan is to bet all my chips if a diamond doesn't come on the turn. Many times i've found that players will think that if they called once with a draw they might as well call again. Now if any /images/graemlins/diamond.gif does come on the turn, I'm folding to a big bet. I lose that 100 bet, but more often then not, a non-diamond will come and then I put him to a decision for all his chips when he's a 4 to 1 dog. Well the turn is 4 /images/graemlins/club.gif. Only one person called my 100 flop bet and now he checked it to me. So I go all in per my plan of attack. He flips over 2 /images/graemlins/heart.gif5 /images/graemlins/club.gif for the nut straight. I'm gone.
Is this strategy on the flop okay, or is it just inviting people to outdraw me?

03-06-2004, 08:26 PM
alright on the flop, but why are you going all in ?? granted he should not have called the flop; but I'd raise 100 and see if he reraises first. Early on too many people will call for another on the flush and you could be walking into two pair, althought the str8 was unlikely.

03-06-2004, 10:31 PM
I guess my strategy and reasoning is this; I'll get called by flush draws(after the turn) more often than I'll run into two pair or any hand that can beat me, for that matter. As long as those flush draws call enough of the time the play would make money. I'm starting to think though that maybe risking all my chips early in the tournament like this is a problem. I've usually been thinking well most of the time that I'm called in this situation I will usually have them dominated 4 to 1 or so. There are a lot of hands out there that still beat me(straight,two pair,ace better kicker) but I will get paid off by bad players on flush draws early in tournaments more than enough times to pay for when I've been beaten. I've actually been in this situation many times. Is the strategy absolutly crazy or not? The more I think about it, I think you are right Sox and I should bet around 100.

03-07-2004, 12:21 AM
Hi Sundevils,

I'm starting to think though that maybe risking all my chips early in the tournament like this is a problem.

[/ QUOTE ]

It most assuredly is. It's a matter of risk vs. reward. With only top pair and a Jack kicker, there are a whole lot of hands that can have you beaten. At the turn, anyone who is still drawing to a flush or straight is only ~1:5 to hit it. So rather than push all-in, why not just bet half the pot? The chaser is getting only 3:1 on the call, so even if he has a pair-plus-four, it's a mistake to call. And if someone comes crashing back at you with an all-in raise, you can decide whether you're willing to go broke -- in the first round -- on only top pair with a marginal kicker.


Guy McSucker
03-07-2004, 10:50 AM
The trouble here is that the stacks are pretty small, which makes it very hard to get away from top pair decent kicker at any stage.

I like your preflop and flop play. On the turn, the pot is 300 and you have about 680 left (if you started the hand with the full 800). It's clear you need to bet again, I believe, and there's really no amount you can bet which will let you fold to a raise with a clear conscience.

If you bet 150 or so, as Cris suggests, and get raised all-in for 500 more, you are getting 2:1 from the pot. It's really not a good idea to get in the habit of laying down hands like these on raggedy looking boards for only a pot size bet. If you know the player has to have the goods, you can fold, but that's pretty rare in this online situation.

The more you bet on the turn the more committed you are. So, I think you're probably committed here regardless. That being the case, I like the all-in move: if they want to call you on a draw, let 'em call for all the chips.

Cris mentioned that betting half the pot is enough to deny odds for a flush draw, which is of course true, as long as you won't put another 150 in on the river if the flush card hits. But if you bet 150, get called, the flush card comes and he bets, say, 200 into the 500 pot, I think you have to call (regularly making laydowns like this will cost you dear), so he's getting his odds. If you really want a flush draw to err by calling, you have to bet more I think.

And in any case, this guy called 100 to win 200 plus a possible further 680, i.e. less than 9:1 even assuming full implied odds, on a gutshot draw. Denying him odds to call didn't help you in this case!