View Full Version : AJs level 3

Kurn, son of Mogh
02-06-2004, 02:56 PM
'Stars $20 + 2 2-table NLHE. Blinds are 25/50, 16 left, I'm chip leader at my table with 3240

I get A /images/graemlins/diamond.gif J /images/graemlins/diamond.gif two off the button.

MP limps, I limp, BB checks. 3 see the flop. Pot = 175

Flop: A /images/graemlins/spade.gif 9 /images/graemlins/heart.gif Q /images/graemlins/club.gif

BB checks, MP bets 150, I raise to 300, BB folds MP calls. Pot = 775. Well, I've gotten myself into it. I'm not sure where I stand, but I think I'm ahead.

Turn: 2 /images/graemlins/heart.gif

Changes nothing. He checks. I decide he's not on a draw and I'm ahead, but I check behind hoping to induce a bluff on the river.

River: J /images/graemlins/heart.gif

He bets 300, I call.

Let me have it. Results later.

02-06-2004, 03:15 PM
Turn: 2 /images/graemlins/heart.gif

Changes nothing. He checks. I decide he's not on a draw and I'm ahead, but I check behind hoping to induce a bluff on the river.

River: J /images/graemlins/heart.gif

He bets 300, I call.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm curious. Did the /images/graemlins/heart.gif on the river change your mind about the draw? You hit two pair *and* got the bet you were hoping to induce and just called.
Was this out of caution because of the possible flush, or did something else change your mind?

I'm also wondering about the minimum raise on the flop. Were you looking to see if you'd get raised by maybe AQ, or was it for value?

I was going to guess your opponent had Ax, but then his bet on the river doesn't make much sense, as his play seems to indicate he's also cautious of the flush.

I'm glad I wasn't in this hand, as I no longer have any idea what anyone was doing. /images/graemlins/crazy.gif

Kurn, son of Mogh
02-06-2004, 05:00 PM
When he bet the flop, I miniraised to see if he'd come over the top (2 pair, a slowplayed AK, etc.) When he called, I figured he was going to see how gar he could go with his kicker. I didn't think it was likely that JT would bet that flop.

There was no flush draw on the flop, but when the turn and river brought hearts, I just called because he could've been playing A /images/graemlins/heart.gif x /images/graemlins/heart.gif

Imaging my surprise when he turns over T /images/graemlins/club.gif 8 /images/graemlins/club.gif and takes it with a str8.

02-06-2004, 05:37 PM

There's this kind of players, I'm more and more aware of. They are very loose, but not really loose-aggressive or passive. They will limp with many hands, and bet any flop, with almost anything - 3rd pair, gutshot, whatever. They are not too aggssive, though (they usualy won't re-raise me, but call).

Maybe the best definition for this kind is loose-semi-aggressive-calling-station: LSACS.

I've noticed they are doing pretty good, if they are not too fish-like, because they win a lot of small pots (when people fold to their flop bets), few bigger ones (like the one you describe), and they almost never lose big, since they will not get into heavy betting situations.

I think this guy is a LSACS. I havn't figured out exactly what to do against them. However, I think mini-raising doesn't work too good.

BTW, lots of LSACS play on small buy-in satellites. But SNG's are rather different, and require different approach.

Only my thoughts here,


02-06-2004, 05:38 PM
The only reason I questioned your river action was that I took your thought that he was not on a draw to mean that you had taken flush out of your considerations. But I can see how A /images/graemlins/heart.gif x /images/graemlins/heart.gif could be but into the "not on a draw" category and still make you cautious after the 3rd /images/graemlins/heart.gif.

10 /images/graemlins/club.gif 8 /images/graemlins/club.gif huh? Were you able to run down this genius later on?

02-06-2004, 06:23 PM
Any chance a preflop raise chases this joker away? With one limper to me, I think I would bump it 4xBB and see if he really likes his hand or not.

The Dude
02-06-2004, 06:46 PM
A larger raise on the flop will either get this guy to fold or cause him to make a big mistake by calling.

FWIW, I would have raised pre-flop as well.

02-06-2004, 06:53 PM
Flop and turn i like.
I think the river choice depends a lot on MP's stack. If he has up to 400 left i'm pushing all-in. Otherwise the call is fine.

02-06-2004, 07:07 PM
I know the two table SNGs are far diff then the party 1 tables, do to amount of play you have. However, if this were a one table SNG i would expect a few things. One, if i had JT i would def bet this flop, though i would bet a lot more as semi bluff. Two, i'd prob raise pre to clear out the trash, seems like winning without a show down is really what you want to accomplish here.

I'm guessing he tried to buy the pot on the flop a sort of weak semibluff considering he's a gutshot draw, you raised back, but not significantly and not enought to give legitimate draw insufficient pot odds. He calls planning to fold the turn if he doesn't at least pick up an openended draw and you let him have card 5 for free.

I would raise more pre and then fire both barrels.

02-06-2004, 07:07 PM
the best strategy IMO is to raise preflop with these players. either they fold or they will pay big to see a flop, either way pays off for you. If this LSACS or whatever you call it, tries to see to many flops, especially raised ones, he will be gone quickly.

I see a lot of people limping with crap suited cards, I don't know why. But this is why I raise preflop with AJ, even AT, especially from the button. If someone calls you you can probably put them on a high A, maybe KQ, some [censored] like that. Get those moron low flush draws out of the hand preflop!
Although you never know, I have seen 4-2o call a 4xBB raise preflop from LP so go figure. /images/graemlins/confused.gif

02-06-2004, 07:09 PM

02-06-2004, 07:36 PM
i hear that a 2 table stars sng plays more like true nolimit than a one table party sng. If that's true then draws aren't necessarily death and it's not the worst thing to limp with T8on at early levels.

Having never played on a stars 2 table though i don't know how many chips you start with.

Kurn, son of Mogh
02-06-2004, 08:52 PM
I finished 3rd. He didn't make the money

02-06-2004, 08:54 PM
I can see why he didn't make the money

02-07-2004, 12:39 AM
Hiya X-Calibre,

Everyone starts with T1500 (T27,000 in play), blinds at 10/20, rising every 10 minutes to 15/30, 25/50, 50/100, 75/150, and 100/200 at the 50 min mark. After the 3-min break, antes kick in with 100/200+25, 200/400+25, 300/600+50, and so on....


02-07-2004, 12:50 AM
Hiya Kurn,

I think I know why you limped pre-flop -- thinking the blinds probably weren't worth stealing at this point -- but I think I'd have raised the pot (to 5xBB) anyway. You have enough that you can lay down vs. a reraise and not miss the 150 a whole lot, and at the very least you don't let the BB and suited-connector limpers in cheap.

I would probably have put him on T8s about 100 years from now; I was that surprised to see what he had. Although I can see a logic to his play: his semi-bluff bet and call at the flop got him all the way to the river, because you had no reason to put him on a draw. It's a useful play to make once in a great while, just to mix things up.

Of course, whether he had that in mind is an open question.


02-07-2004, 03:24 AM
"Of course, whether he had <font color="yellow">th</font>a<font color="yellow">t in</font> mind is an open question."

02-07-2004, 12:04 PM
Hiya Craig,

LOL ... yup.


02-07-2004, 07:06 PM
Hi Kurn,

I don't like the pre-flop at all. I would drop a 3x bet to possibly clear the blinds, but also to clear any limpers in the CO or Button. I want to act last.

This player stinks. Sorry he drew out on you.

02-09-2004, 03:30 PM
I disagree with all the statements about raising pre-flop --- you scare away Ax, which may give you profit later on. Another factor about not raising pre-flop is that in a flush draw situation, you keep people in who may be on a non-nut flush draw and then take all their money if the flush card comes.

Let's look at this realistically --- you had the best of it pre-flop, on the flop (both his bet and your raise are probably money in your pocket, as his gutshot str8 did not warrant either), and you got unlucky on the river.

Your real mistake here was not betting the turn. He probably would raise pre-flop with the AK or AQ, (and the Q on the flop makes it less likely he had an AQ pre-flop anyway). I would suspect his hand to be either Ax or JT based on the flop, many people do bet straight draws. When the turn card comes as a blank it is an excellent opportunity to not give him a free card for two pair or a possible flush. Bet the pot --- make him pay to see the river card.

When he does bet the river, you have to call of course. But it is quite possible a pot-level bet will cause a fold on the turn. I have seen that quite often --- people don't necessarily play pot odds, but when they see their chip pile dwindling, they will drop a draw.