View Full Version : Best Hand on Flop w/Opponents 4 to a Flush

01-26-2004, 09:22 PM
**** Hand History for Game 355827938 *****
Table Card Room Table 4728 (Real Money)
Seat 10 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: pocketmaces ( $785 )
Seat 2: MAKEROFRAIN ( $785 )
Seat 3: andribs ( $785 )
Seat 4: Thesemen ( $785 )
Seat 5: THE_BADGER_1 ( $845 )
Seat 6: jimchristmas ( $990 )
Seat 10: mrgambino ( $770 )
Seat 9: jpddustin ( $655 )
Seat 7: dapopinjay ( $755 )
Seat 8: trayman11 ( $845 )
Trny:2041215 Level:1
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to dapopinjay [ Jd Ah ]
andribs folds.
Thesemen calls [15].
THE_BADGER_1 calls [15].
jimchristmas folds.
dapopinjay raises [30].
trayman11 folds.
jpddustin calls [30].
mrgambino folds.
pocketmaces calls [20].
Thesemen calls [15].
THE_BADGER_1 calls [15].
** Dealing Flop ** [ Ac, 4h, Tc ]
pocketmaces checks.
Thesemen checks.
THE_BADGER_1 checks.
dapopinjay bets [165].
jpddustin folds.
pocketmaces calls [165].
Thesemen calls [165].
THE_BADGER_1 folds.
** Dealing Turn ** [ Jc ]
pocketmaces bets [100].
Thesemen calls all-In.
dapopinjay folds.
pocketmaces calls all-In.
** Dealing River ** [ 3d ]
pocketmaces shows a flush, ace high.
Thesemen shows a flush, ace high.
pocketmaces wins 1840 chips from the main pot with a flush, ace high with queen kicker.

What's the proper amount to bet in this situation? I'm dapopinjay. I had the best hand with A-high and J kicker. I didn't go all-in because I feared the flush and the crazy players on Party.

P.S. Is there some website that converts my hand history to an easier to read format?

01-26-2004, 10:40 PM
A couple of comments, I hate the min raise. You are building a large pot with a mediocre hand that is going to be played multi way and you don't have position. A very bad spot for you.

With that many people on the flop you need to bet at least the pot or maybe 1.5x the pot about 250 here if my math is right to charge draws. A lot of players on the draw are going to call, but they are wrong to do so and in the long run that is very good for you. But what do you do if you get reraised all in here? How do you like your AJ now?

On the turn good fold, the flush got there and so did the straight. I think all of your problems came from your preflop play, you either need to make a soild raise or fold, and I lean towards folding.

01-26-2004, 10:51 PM
I didn't go all-in because I feared the flush and the crazy players on Party.

[/ QUOTE ]

Quick comment:

You have this completely backwards. The more you fear a draw, the MORE you bet, not the other way around.


01-26-2004, 11:56 PM
If I have a very good hand, top pair top kicker or better (the higher the pair the better), and I'm convinced I have the best hand, and two suits fall on the flop, I'm all in. Here's how I look at it. First, most times everyone is folding anyways. However at low levels in SNGs, people LOVE to chase flushes. Why should I let them chase it cheaply? Dont fear the flush draw, embrace it. Beg those people to call. 2/3 times they're losing and you're doubling up. I'll play with those odds all day every day.

poker wannabe
01-27-2004, 02:34 AM
when you know you have the best hand on a flop against players who will chase their 4 flush, give them improper odds to chase on the turn and the river, but DO NOT set bad players all in. they're likely to call because they implicitly understand the concept of effective odds. they're calling one bet for two cards. break it in two. they've got about a 6 to 1 shot on each card to hit their flush, so just give them 2 to 1 pot odds for each card. usually, if they dont hit it on the turn, they'll fold to a big bet on the river.

01-27-2004, 09:22 AM
Once you've decided to play AJo in middle position, and you have two early position callers, you really need to make people pay to see the flop. AJo is not a hand that really wants to see a flop, and if it does, it wants to do so against 1 opponent.

I would have had trouble going all-in here not because of the flush draw possibility, but because there are 5 people in this pot and I now have to worry about AT, 44, TT (and these crazy party people might even play T4s in the BB against a min raise with 5 people in).

Would you have been as reluctant to go all-in against 1 opponent? 2?

Personally, I would raise this up to 4-5xBB to narrow the field or I would fold it pre-flop. AJo, as you found out, is a very tough hand to play in a 5-way pot. I don't have a big problem with the pot-sized bet. Maybe you could have gone to a slightly bigger (pot * 1.5?) bet to reduce the pot odds even further, but I don't have a big problem with your play on the flop. It's the preflop play that is your issue, in my opinion.

Disclaimer: The preceding advice was delivered by a relative poker newbie...feel free to disagree, flame, ignore, or (gulp) heed at your own risk.