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DrPhysic
01-03-2004, 03:38 PM
99% sure this is right, but somebody check me anyway, pls.
In holdem there are 52x51=2652 possible opening hands, right?

TIA

Doc

Bozeman
01-03-2004, 04:31 PM
Try dividing by 2, since AhQs is equivalent to QsAh.

BruceZ
01-03-2004, 04:51 PM
99% sure this is right, but somebody check me anyway, pls. In holdem there are 52x51=2652 possible opening hands, right?

I'll take just 50-1 that it's wrong. What a deal huh?

DrPhysic
01-03-2004, 05:24 PM
I don't use stats in daily work, and haven't studied it in 40 years, so stupid questions while I relearn the whole thing to play poker.

Doc

Terry
01-04-2004, 02:22 AM
You want to count Combinations, not Permutations.

A /images/graemlins/spade.gifQ /images/graemlins/heart.gif = A /images/graemlins/diamond.gifQ /images/graemlins/club.gif
Further complicates the issue.

M.B.E.
01-04-2004, 03:58 AM
For the record, there are 169 holdem starting hands if you ignore hands that are isomorphic to one you've already counted.

78 suited hands, 78 offsuit/different rank, 13 pairs.

miket523
01-04-2004, 09:16 AM
It's important to keep in mind that each pair will occur approximately .45%, each offsuit about .9%, and each suited about .3% =

Approximately
78 offsuit * .9% = 70.2%
78 offsuit * .3% = 23.4%
13 pairs * .45% = 5.85%

miket523
01-04-2004, 11:24 PM
Obviously the second line above should read

78 suited *.3 = 23.4%

Sorry for the misprint.

DrPhysic
01-05-2004, 05:15 PM
Thanks for responses, guys. Here's what I am doing:

I play both low limit, LHE ring tables (2/4) and low buy-in satellite and SNG NLHE.

The current list of hands I will play is generated from Sklansky's hand groups and some input from Winning Online Poker. Most of DS's group 7&amp;8 are too loose for my Friday night good ole boy low limit game.

I have currently 30 hands on my play list for full table HE. Very similar to DS's Gp 1-4 + Pairs and Crockpot's list. More for short tables, more yet for HU, but for the moment I am considering only full table. Counting the isomorphic hands (6 ways to make AA, etc) there are 220 hands. Div by 1326, I am playing 1/6.0. (1/5.3 short, 1/4.3 HU).

Q1: Is this too tight/about right/too loose?

Q2: It is obvious that this list should not be exactly the same for LHE and NLHE. I am currently working on ideas that would identify what differences and why. Any input accepted.

Q3: Is there a useful published list of starting hands for NLHE? Next on my buy list are Sklansky TPFAP; PL&amp;NL Poker, Ruben&amp;Ciaffone; Champ PL&amp;NL HE, Cloutier; and Gambling Theories, Malmuth if he's not too far over my head. TOP, HEP, &amp; HEPFAP are pretty clearly for mid limit LHE.

TIA

Doc

GrinToday
01-05-2004, 09:44 PM
Here are all the possible starting hands in Holdem. You can copy and paste if desired into a spreadsheet.

1 - AA
2 - AK(s)
3 - AK
4 - AQ(s)
5 - AQ
6 - AJ(s)
7 - AJ
8 - AT(s)
9 - AT
10 - A9(s)
11 - A9
12 - A8(s)
13 - A8
14 - A7(s)
15 - A7
16 - A6(s)
17 - A6
18 - A5(s)
19 - A5
20 - A4(s)
21 - A4
22 - A3(s)
23 - A3
24 - A2(s)
25 - A2
26 - KK
27 - KQ(s)
28 - KQ
29 - KJ(s)
30 - KJ
31 - K10(s)
32 - K10
33 - K9(s)
34 - K9
35 - K8(s)
36 - K8
37 - K7(s)
38 - K7
39 - K6(s)
40 - K6
41 - K5(s)
42 - K5
43 - K4(s)
44 - K4
45 - K3(s)
46 - K3
47 - K2(s)
48 - K2
49 - QQ
50 - QJ(s)
51 - QJ
52 - Q10(s)
53 - Q10
54 - Q9(s)
55 - Q9
56 - Q8(s)
57 - Q8
58 - Q7(s)
59 - Q7
60 - Q6(s)
61 - Q6
62 - Q5(s)
63 - Q5
64 - Q4(s)
65 - Q4
66 - Q3(s)
67 - Q3
68 - Q2(s)
69 - Q2
70 - JJ
71 - J10(s)
72 - J10
73 - J9(s)
74 - J9
75 - J8(s)
76 - J8
77 - J7(s)
78 - J7
79 - J6(s)
80 - J6
81 - J5(s)
82 - J5
83 - J4(s)
84 - J4
85 - J3(s)
86 - J3
87 - J2(s)
88 - J2
89 - 10,10
90 - 10,9(s)
91 - 10,9
92 - 10,8(s)
93 - 10,8
94 - 10,7(s)
95 - 10,7
96 - 10,6(s)
97 - 10,6
98 - 10,5(s)
99 - 10,5
100 - 10,4(s)
101 - 10,4
102 - 10,3(s)
103 - 10,3
104 - 10,2(s)
105 - 10,2
106 - 9,9
107 - 9,8(s)
108 - 9,8
109 - 9,7(s)
110 - 9,7
111 - 9,6(s)
112 - 9,6
113 - 9,5(s)
114 - 9,5
115 - 9,4(s)
116 - 9,4
117 - 9,3(s)
118 - 9,3
119 - 9,2(s)
120 - 9,2
121 - 8,8
122 - 8,7(s)
123 - 8,7
124 - 8,6(s)
125 - 8,6
126 - 8,5(s)
127 - 8,5
128 - 8,4(s)
129 - 8,4
130 - 8,3(s)
131 - 8,3
132 - 8,2(s)
133 - 8,2
134 - 7,7
135 - 7,6(s)
136 - 7,6
137 - 7,5(s)
138 - 7,5
139 - 7,4(s)
140 - 7,4
141 - 7,3(s)
142 - 7,3
143 - 7,2(s)
144 - 7,2
145 - 6,6
146 - 6,5(s)
147 - 6,5
148 - 6,4(s)
149 - 6,4
150 - 6,3(s)
151 - 6,3
152 - 6,2(s)
153 - 6,2
154 - 5,5
155 - 5,4(s)
156 - 5,4
157 - 5,3(s)
158 - 5,3
159 - 5,2(s)
160 - 5,2
161 - 4,4
162 - 4,3(s)
163 - 4,3
164 - 4,2(s)
165 - 4,2
166 - 3,3
167 - 3,2(s)
168 - 3,2
169 - 2,2

eastbay
01-07-2004, 01:21 AM
[ QUOTE ]
For the record, there are 169 holdem starting hands if you ignore hands that are isomorphic to one you've already counted.

78 suited hands, 78 offsuit/different rank, 13 pairs.

[/ QUOTE ]

Of course, once the flop comes, "isomorphic" hands are no long isomorphic.

Preflop, sure.