View Full Version : Confused about Counting Outs v. Calculating Percentages

Filmore Slim
10-08-2003, 12:04 PM
I am confused as to when to use percentages to calculate odds (such as percentage for completing a flush draw by the river + percentage of making a top pair if you have two overcards by the river) and when to count outs (9 cards for four flush draw + 6 for top 2 pairs)?

Do you only count outs on the turn? I don't see how counting outs on the flop would help because there are 2 more cards to come.

Please help. Thanks.

10-08-2003, 12:40 PM
They are the same thing in the long run, but many of the Flop percentages you will memorize rather than estimating the odds needed based on outs. Most of the time, when using outs on the flop, the odds are estimated by multiplying the outs by 2 (for the two cards to come) and ratioing (46-2xO)/(2xO) for the odds needed. 46 is more convenient than 47 because all of the numbers are then even.

Outs are used on the turn because there are so many different situations. Eg while you may have a flush draw for 9 outs, you may feel that pairing your top card may be sufficient to take the hand adding outs, or that one of your flush cards makes a boat for the opponent reducing your outs, and so on. Thus while "standard" percentages or odds may be memorized (4.75/1 for a 2 way straight, 4.1/1 for a flush, etc) more often than not "non-standard" calculations are needed, which are easiest by outs.