View Full Version : Was this preflop push with AK too agressive?

12-27-2005, 03:39 AM
This was at a house game, so I have a pretty good read on a majority of my opponents.

Buyin was $30, we had 11 people, 4 who rebought at one point (we allowed rebuys during the first two blind levels), top 3 payout. Every starts the tournament with $30 in chips. I know it's kinda weird to do tournies with dollar values, but it's just hwo the guy that has it as his house likes to do it.

Anyway, at the point of the hand, I was right at the top of the pack with 10 people left in the game all seated at the same table.

Here is the hand:

Blinds are ($1/$2)

UTG Folds
UTG+1 Folds
Hero ($60 in chips) is dealt [A/images/graemlins/heart.gif K/images/graemlins/heart.gif]raises to $8
Folds to BB ($48 in chips) who re-raises to $18
Hero goes all-in

Now, the BB is a relatively loose player. He'll limp with any two cards 10 or above, most suited aces and suited connectors, raises with A+any card above 10, and nearly all pocket pairs. I put him on a hand anywhere from 9's-Q's, AK or AQ, and a slim chance he would've had KK. I know from the past, this guy likes to slow play AA, so I was relatively sure he didn't have that.

He ended up with JJ and won the race.

I talked to someone after the hand, and they think I shoulda called his re-raise and just seen the flop and gotten away if I didn't hit. I felt that was just too passive of a move. I thought I also might have had some fold equity since I put all the pressure on him to make the decision with a decent/good pocket pair, which gave me what I thought was a slightly better shot than a coin flip. Also, if I just pay to see the flop and don't hit, I don't get to see the turn and the river without paying a price, which I would get to see if all the money was already in.

I'm not the type who likes to race. I'm a very tight player, but I can accept the fact that to win most tournies, you need to win a race.

Just wondering what others would do facing the same situation.

12-27-2005, 04:02 AM
After skimming through the sectino in Tournament Poker For Advanced Players by Sklanksy, it seems like it wasn't such a bad move. Anyone else have any thoughts?

12-27-2005, 04:05 AM
You're out of position postflop, and your AK wants to see all 5 streets, I like the push.

12-27-2005, 04:16 AM
Well he was the BB, so I would technically be in position, unless you consider him with the stronger position since he gets the first stab at the pot.

12-27-2005, 04:27 AM
Anyone else?

12-27-2005, 04:31 AM
I think what you did was bad. You have way to many big blinds to be pushing AK. Create a small pot, so that if you don't hit the flop, you can get away from the hand. You started this hand with 30bb, and whammo, now your out.

12-27-2005, 01:58 PM
Alright, well I don't see my mistake here in making the original raies to 8. It's a standard raise, 4x the BB. Now he re raised me to 10, already making the pot $30 which is half my stack.

So the pot is already big and there's nothing I can do about it. I didn't tell him to re raise, so I can't control the size of the pot. Unless you think I shoudl just limp behind him, but I think that would be a bad move. I dont' see who you can really say to make the pot small though with my stack.

Al P
12-27-2005, 02:13 PM
With rebuys this is an easy push especially if you know he'll call with AQ - AT or lay down some smaller pairs giving you all that equity already in the pot.

12-27-2005, 02:14 PM
Well unfortuantely this was after the rebuy period had ended.

12-27-2005, 09:56 PM
Any other comments?

12-28-2005, 02:40 PM
There's not much else to say. Given you've got a read to eliminate AA, you're only a significant dog to KK. Every other hand he could have you are either a small dog or a favorite. With your suited cards, you are at worst a 54:46 dog, but you're getting 56:40 odds (maybe fudge slightly down to account for the slim chance he has KK). If he would ever call with a dominated hand here (AQ) then that just helps all the more.

You're 35% to make a pair on the flop about, and the post is offering you 2.6:1 to call, which means calling is a mistake unless you have implied odds, and I'm not sure that you have good implied odds. If an A or a K hits, it will be hard to make money. Plus since you don't know what he's on, if the board comes, say AJ2, AT6, AQ4, A98 and you end up getting a lot of action, you might be a dog in the hand.

A push guarantees you're getting an edge. Yes, you got your money in with the worst of it, but the pf raise was mandatory, and the blinds are now big enough relative to your stack sizes that when reraised it has already become a mistake to throw the hand away, and smooth calling presents its own set of problems in addition to being a -EV call taken on its own.

12-28-2005, 02:54 PM
Still not clear on your read. Even LAG's sometimes have narrow RE-RAISING ranges. If you think he can re-raise PF and call a push with AJ-AQ or if you think he can lay down most pairs to a push re-re-raise, then I like the push. If not, this early and with your stack, call and see a flop in position.

12-28-2005, 03:01 PM
I don't think calling the re-raise preflop is incorrect. You are in position after the flop. If you miss the flop and he bets, then you can throw the hand away and still have 21 big blinds, so you are not in dangerous territory.

I think that, without reads, you have to figure there is a good chance that BB has a pocket pair, in which case you are in a race situation, and I don't know if that is a situation I want to be in preflop at this point in the tournament.