Learning the subtleties of on-line poker

[mdw442]

I've been playing on-line poker for several months and my performance has been streaky at best. I attribute this to the following:

1. Low stakes online poker is really no different from video poker. Luck plays too big a part.
2. I can't read tells.

I switched from limit ring games to NL and PL tournaments, and seem to be doing better, but there is still a lot of room for improvement. I played 12 tournaments today, and won 1, placed 2nd once, two 3rds, two 4ths, two 5ths, two 6ths and two 9ths. Some games I do well at and others I get my butt kicked and don't see any reason why.

My biggest problem is I feel like I am missing subtle tells and people are creaming me with river card beats (I get drawn out with a quad when I had FH, or most often, I loose a AAA to a straight on the river card because I couldn't scare the other player off). Even worse is when I fold a hand on a big bet that would have paid off if I'd just stuck it out one more card.

I don't live near any card rooms, so on-line is my only choice if I want to play. I've read Sklansky & Malmuth's books, but a lot of what they say doesn't seem to work online (better on NL and PL tournaments than ring games).

What am I missing? Are there any books out there that help online players?

All suggestions greatly appreciated.

[Ed Miller]

I've been playing on-line poker for several months and my performance has been streaky at best. I attribute this to the following:

1. Low stakes online poker is really no different from video poker. Luck plays too big a part.
2. I can't read tells.

This is not why you can't beat online poker. The much more likely reason is that you just don't understand poker theory very well. Read and reread Holdem Poker for Advanced Players. I also suggest you get Middle Limit Holdem Poker by Ciaffone and Brier and practice on their example problems. Also, you should read this forum and start participating here by posting hands. Your game will improve dramatically.

[mdw442]

The Sklansky & Malmuth books never leave my side. I read and re-read them whenever I have a free moment. I'll try the other book you mention, and thanks for the reply.

[Sooga]

After reading some good poker books (TOP, HPFAP, etc), you should be able to beat most low limit online games playing very literally like a robot, making the same plays over and over and over. There are certain players who definitely adjust to your play, and that you will have to readjust to play them, but for the most part, you can beat low limit games with just solid fundamental play.

[mdw442]

See - that was my point. When I play like a robot following the TOP and Advanced Hold'em books, I do win, and I win big. The problem is, at least on Party Poker, I am getting killed with river cards, and loosing big. Yesterday I got beat holding AA, with AK2 flop, then 4th was a J, and the river came K, giving a guy holding KK a set of quads. I bet into the river because the pot was so huge it was worth a shot.

There was actually a worse one, same layout, but this time I had the KK and the killer card was a 6. I got beat on the river by quad 6s.

Usually, when I loose, I loose big to a play like that, or the one that really gets me is when I have trips and some guy won't fold, bets with my raises, and fills in a 7-3 straight or some other killer card like that.

There is something I am missing in how these people are betting. When I try and second guess my strategy, I wind up folding on hands where I would have won if I stuck it out.

There is some subtlety in the play that I am missing. I guess it is back to the books for me. The answer has to be in there.

Thanks for your help.

[Nottom]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
Yesterday I got beat holding AA, with AK2 flop, then 4th was a J, and the river came K, giving a guy holding KK a set of quads. I bet into the river because the pot was so huge it was worth a shot.


[/ QUOTE ]

Nothing you can do about that, there is nothing you can do to make KK fold his hand here ... nothing. Not in limit, not in NL. Losing top FH to Quads is going to happen, and its going to cost you a lot when it does, but it will all even out in the long run.

[FullBoat]

Loose players - you'll find them almost everywhere.

[Sooga]

Well, a rough rule of thumb is if you look back and see that you minimized your -EV situations and maximized your +EV situations, then you're playing well, even if you lose the pot. In the long run, your opponent will not hit his 1-outers 46 out of 47 times on the river, which means you will win the pot 46 out of 47 times. Suckouts are suckouts. But it's all one long session. Like 2pac says, ya gotta keep ya head up.

[mdw442]

Very true, and that's how I'm playing. I guess my reason for whining is that the wins are coming in streaks, and the losses in streaks. So far, long term I am even, but I want to do better than that.

I appreciate all your thoughts and ideas. I'll keep studying the books and playing.

Mark