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mrh86
09-18-2005, 10:01 PM
This is a simple question based on odds, but I have no idea how to figure the answer out. Suppose you are playing in a no limit Texas Hold 'Em game with 54 cards. The only difference between a normal Hold 'Em game and this one is that the two jokers are left in the deck, and they're wild. Now suppose two people are playing this game heads-up. One is dealt:

A /images/graemlins/diamond.gif A /images/graemlins/heart.gif

The other is dealt:

A joker and the 7 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif or 7 /images/graemlins/heart.gif

What is the percentage for the aces to hold up preflop?

Kaeser
09-18-2005, 10:15 PM
I'm not sure how to do the math but it doesn't seem like it would effect the percentages much preflop. Since the jokers are wild then almost anything they do to help the 7's would help the Aces just as much.

Alex/Mugaaz
09-18-2005, 10:42 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I'm not sure how to do the math but it doesn't seem like it would effect the percentages much preflop. Since the jokers are wild then almost anything they do to help the 7's would help the Aces just as much.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not true.

Neil Stevens
09-19-2005, 03:51 AM
You could probably take the twodimes software ( http://sourceforge.net/projects/pokersource/ ) for enumerating holdem hands, and tweak it to include jokers, if you're curious enough.

LetYouDown
09-19-2005, 09:27 AM
[ QUOTE ]
What is the percentage for the aces to hold up preflop?

[/ QUOTE ]
100%.

The_Bends
09-19-2005, 10:06 AM
Ok you have the normal odds for 77 beating AA. in addition to this you also have odds the board will come with a four flush in a black suit plus the odds the the board comes down with a straight that can range from 3 to J. Any 7 on board wins it for the joker as long as an A doesn't fall. Any trips wins as long as there isn't an A.

I reckon 7-Jo is probably winning, maybe 60:40 ahead although thats a guess.

What happens if a joker falls on the board? Thats got to lead to some crazy hands.

Kaeser
09-19-2005, 12:10 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm not sure how to do the math but it doesn't seem like it would effect the percentages much preflop. Since the jokers are wild then almost anything they do to help the 7's would help the Aces just as much.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not true.

[/ QUOTE ]

Care to elaborate that comment? Other then making a straight for the 7's I don't see anything else the Jokers can really do to improve the 7's more then the aces.

MediaPA
09-19-2005, 01:51 PM
I don't know if this is what the original reply was getting at or whatever, but Jokers greatly increase your outs. We'll forget about the other joker, (though if that hits the board, it'll likely help a hand holding a joker a little more, but I don't want to think about it).

AA verus Joker X

After the flop (w/o an ace), you have a minimum of 12 outs , board pairing or your hole card pairing, and after the turn (again, no ace), a minimum of 15 outs. You gain outs w/ staights and flush draws on top of this. So it increases your hand strength considerably versus AA.

SossMan
09-19-2005, 02:26 PM
Joker - anything is killing all other hands.

you chop all board 4 straights, win half the 4 flushes, chop the other two, win almost anytime a 7 comes on board, win almost anytime the board pairs.

I don't know how to calculate it, but I would put it at something like 70-30 for the Joker-7 vs. AA.

Hell, just the joker is probably 50% vs. AA.

09-22-2005, 04:18 PM
[ QUOTE ]

Care to elaborate that comment? Other then making a straight for the 7's I don't see anything else the Jokers can really do to improve the 7's more then the aces.

[/ QUOTE ]

The joker improves a lot of different hands more than the Aces are improved.

If an ace doesn't appear on the board, the joker hand wins the following ways:

Trips. If the board pairs, the hand with Aces has 2 pairs, but the hand with the joker has 3 of a kind (or 4 of a kind if the board pairs sevens)

Flushes. If a four flush is on board, the hand with a joker has an Ace-high flush (splitting the pot with the Aces if it is a red card four flush, winning the pot outright if it is a black card four flush.) If 3 diamonds are on the board (assuming the 7 is a diamond), the hand with a joker has an ace-high flush and wins the hand outright.

Full House. Any two pair on the board is a full house winner for the joker hand (unless one of the two pairs is sevens, which is a four of a kind winner for the joker hand).

Four of a kind. Any three of a kind on the board is a winner for the joker hand. (Except for 3 sevens, which is a five of a kind winner for the joker hand)

Five of a kind. Any four of a kind on the board is a winner for the joker hand.

Kaeser
09-22-2005, 07:03 PM
Sorry I read this post completely wrong. I thought he was saying you had A /images/graemlins/heart.gifA /images/graemlins/diamond.gif versus 7 /images/graemlins/heart.gif7 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif and wanted to know how the jokers being in the deck would effect the odds. Obviously having a joker in your hand gives you a huge advantage.

TomCollins
09-23-2005, 12:37 AM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm not sure how to do the math but it doesn't seem like it would effect the percentages much preflop. Since the jokers are wild then almost anything they do to help the 7's would help the Aces just as much.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not true.

[/ QUOTE ]

Care to elaborate that comment? Other then making a straight for the 7's I don't see anything else the Jokers can really do to improve the 7's more then the aces.

[/ QUOTE ]

You win on any paired board that doesn't have an ace. Seems big to me.