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View Full Version : Berate my play


suited_ace
09-18-2005, 02:45 AM
This is what you get when you decide to play poker instead of going to bed as you should:

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t200 (4 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Button (t1515)
SB (t1830)
Hero (t2475)
UTG (t2180)

Preflop: Hero is BB with T/images/graemlins/heart.gif, Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
<font color="#CC3333">UTG raises to t400</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Hero calls t200.

Flop: (t900) Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 8/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets t425</font>, Hero calls t425.

Turn: (t1750) 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, UTG checks.

River: (t1750) 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets t425</font>, Hero calls t425.


How would you play it?

curtains
09-18-2005, 02:55 AM
I would fold preflop, I would also checkraise the flop after that weak 425 bet.

lastchance
09-18-2005, 03:21 AM
I fold preflop most of the time, check-raise the flop, and I split between calling the down and pushing turn.

tlow03
09-18-2005, 03:29 AM
Why fold when you have a decent hand, excellent pot odds and a player who has a low effective M.

09-18-2005, 03:32 AM
I fold preflop because I don't wanna hit TP and be in a tough spot. That said, this isn't the biggest mistake in the world. You're ahead a fair amount of the time here, and playing it passively isn't horrible; just not smart play on the bubble though.

tlow03
09-18-2005, 03:39 AM
I'd stick a raise in somewhere to define my hand as strong, and try to win it right away. That means you could raise preflop to try to win the hand right there. Since you are out of position picking up the pot right there is good. If he calls a pot sized raise then you know you're up against a real hand and you should be careful. You could lead out on the flop with a half pot sized bet (if you're not planning on check raising) to once again gain information on your opponent and also try to win the pot.

The way you played it was terrible, but you didn't get a whole lot of info on your opponent b/c you didnt bet.

chisness
09-18-2005, 03:42 AM
i'd fold preflop to avoid this type of spot, but i generally call down here because if he pushes you pretty much can't call (which allows him to push you out on riv but is generally less risky than c-r'ing)

lastchance
09-18-2005, 03:50 AM
[ QUOTE ]
i'd fold preflop to avoid this type of spot, but i generally call down here because if he pushes you pretty much can't call (which allows him to push you out on riv but is generally less risky than c-r'ing)

[/ QUOTE ]
Um... No. Calling down is only good when you are certain that he'll bluff the river, allowing you to call profitably. Giving your opponents two free cards on the turn and river when you have the best hand on the flop a large percentage of the time is very bad poker.

Check-Push back on the flop if you get there, and on the bubble, with those stacks, it's really not close.

And you fold because being OOP sucks, and the guy has a hand that beats you a large percentage of the time. That said, calling isn't the end of the world.

However, I definitely think that check-all-in on this flop is by far the best play.

tlow03
09-18-2005, 04:23 AM
Fair enough, check push is a nice play. Folding preflop is a really bad idea. It costs you 200 to win 700 thats 1 to 3.5 pot odds which means you are getting odds to call with almost any two. Given the situation q 10 is a decently strong hand. The only way you could lay this down was if you "knew" the guy had qq kk or aa. Plus folding is such a weak play it just encourages the other players to pick on you and steal your blind more frequently. With the blinds where they are you need to pick a spot and make a stand or you're gonna be blided out real fast.

added:
The guy has a hand that has you beat a large percentage of the time? I'd say most often hes up against a small pair or a 60 40 situation. Being out of position does have hte advantage of providing you the opportunity to bet first, which could win you the pot right there (on the flop).

09-18-2005, 07:45 AM
I agree with curtains, fold preflop but once you're there checkraise that flop, you did like that flop right?

Having said that I don't think calling preflop or on the flop is so bad that you deserve to be berated either, maybe I'm too kind. You guys who want to be berated really gotta start posting some true stinkers.

PS It would help to know what the buyin is.

suited_ace
09-18-2005, 11:44 AM
This is a $22.

curtains
09-18-2005, 01:19 PM
Calling preflop is definitely not that bad, and for many players may be the correct play, the same goes for calling the flop, but in this case I really strongly prefer taking an aggressive stand.

sng-sam
09-18-2005, 03:45 PM
go to bed preflop

suited_ace
09-18-2005, 05:45 PM
curtains, what's your hand range to call in that spot?

Ogre
09-18-2005, 05:55 PM
fold preflop and probably push the flop

adanthar
09-18-2005, 06:00 PM
If I don't CR the flop or bet the turn, I play it like you did, but I will mostly (not always) do one or the other.

09-18-2005, 06:15 PM
I sooo like checking the turn here, not that I'd get there this way ... why is betting the turn good? i mean as long as we missed checkraising the flop, why not checkraise the turn, seems like a good spot to induce a bluff?

Chaostracize
09-18-2005, 06:18 PM
I'm curious about this fold, curtains. I don't think I'd even think twice about calling here. Is that bad?

09-18-2005, 06:31 PM
Not to speak for curtains but yes it is bad to not think twice about putting in 200 chips which is at that moment close to 10% of your stack to play QT out of position against a raiser.

curtains
09-18-2005, 07:17 PM
Please read my above post where I say that calling is fine /images/graemlins/smile.gif

adanthar
09-18-2005, 07:30 PM
Because AK is not going to bet a second time anyway so why give him 6 outs?

Inducing the bluff is when you check the turn and then check the river again because now you're obviously scared of your hand but maybe you have a pair of 3's so now AK is determined to get you out at all costs.

Pudge714
09-18-2005, 07:32 PM
[ QUOTE ]

I would fold preflop, I would also checkraise the flop after that weak 425 bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

Chaostracize
09-18-2005, 09:53 PM
You would fold but you don't think calling is that bad? Then why would you, personally, fold?

curtains
09-18-2005, 10:05 PM
Because in poker there are a lot of "close" decisions, things are not so clear cut. In a lot of these situations it makes sense to play according to your style.

Chaostracize
09-18-2005, 10:17 PM
I like my "chip spew" style. Haha.

09-19-2005, 06:38 AM
Ok thanks. I'm gonna think about this one a bit, I remember reading your post before going to bed last night thinking bet the turn wtf it wouldn't even occur to me to bet the turn, what am I missing? Maybe this is a hole in my game, then again I wouldn't find myself in this particular spot so maybe it's not so bad. Am I rambling, I'll shut up now, thx again for your response.

Hendricks433
09-19-2005, 06:48 AM
Someone said call with any 2 (which facing a minraise always gives you good odds to do so) unless you know he had AA KK or QQ, but what if he has KQ, QJ, A,10, K,10 all hands that have you dominated. I fold pf cause I feel like I can find a better spot. Q,10 isnt that awesome of a hand. If I do call pf I check push flop. Dont see any other play being that good. Could call down and not go broke if he has you beat but also allows him to hit turn and/or river for free.

Atty
09-19-2005, 10:24 AM
Call the flop and lead the turn for about 900. Fold if raised, check the river if called.

If you raise the flop, you have to go all-in. And I donít like CR all-in on the flop because you are either way ahead or way behind. You will save more chips and gain more info by just calling and leading the turn.

Comments?