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View Full Version : Need some help with drawing odds

Mr. Curious
09-05-2005, 03:54 PM
This situation has come up often enough that I am wondering if I am thinking incorrectly about it.

Say I am in a game of hold'em with AKo and Villian has K2o.

The flop is K98 rainbow.

If Villian bets and I just call, am I giving him infinite odds to draw to his two pair since I did not raise him?

Note: I understand that if I checked it through, I would be giving him infinite odds, but is calling his bet the same thing?

THANKS!

KJL
09-05-2005, 06:54 PM
No, he is getting the same odds, as if you bet and he called. However, by raising you are reducing his odds.

Mr. Curious
09-06-2005, 01:14 PM
[ QUOTE ]
No, he is getting the same odds, as if you bet and he called. However, by raising you are reducing his odds.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am reducing his odds because it is costing him even more to make his hand, correct?

Luzion
09-06-2005, 06:02 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
No, he is getting the same odds, as if you bet and he called. However, by raising you are reducing his odds.

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I am reducing his odds because it is costing him even more to make his hand, correct?

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Yes and no. If you raise him, you are making him put in a lot more money on the flop with a dominated hand. But it wouldnt be a big mistake to call your raise because the pot would be bigger now.

Btw, you need to specifically say "pot odds" as his probability to improve to two pair does not change.

AaronBrown
09-06-2005, 09:04 PM
Out of the 990 possible turn and river cards, 876 win for you, 102 win for him and 12 tie.

If there is \$100 in the pot before any postflop betting, you expect to get \$89 of it. Whatever money is in the pot at the end of flop betting, you expect to get 89% of it as well. Obviously, the more you can induce him to put in, the better for you.

If you open the post flop betting, and both of you know each other's cards, and bets are all-in so we don't have to worry about turn and river bets; he should fold if you bet \$14 or more, but call if you bet \$13 or less.

After he bets into you, the only thing that changes in the amount in the pot. If he bets \$100, your call is like a check when you have the chance to bet. That leaves \$300 in the pot. If you raise by \$42 or more, he should fold, if you raise by \$41 or less, he should call.

TaintedRogue
09-09-2005, 12:08 AM
[ QUOTE ]
This situation has come up often enough that I am wondering if I am thinking incorrectly about it.

Say I am in a game of hold'em with AKo and Villian has K2o.

The flop is K98 rainbow.

If Villian bets and I just call, am I giving him infinite odds to draw to his two pair since I did not raise him?

Note: I understand that if I checked it through, I would be giving him infinite odds, but is calling his bet the same thing?

[/ QUOTE ]

You're opponent bet his hand for value. He voluntarily put money in the post, based on his/her assessment of the value of their hand.
Therefore, calling with the better hand and affording your opponent to not have to pay for his/her mistake, is giving your opponent infinite odds to the draw.
That does not mean it's wrong, as in this case, your opponent has only 3 outs to the deuce and you may be able to extract more money by raising the turn.

suprblah
09-09-2005, 07:05 AM
can you please show me some threads where it teaches you how to perform these calculations and arrive at these conclusions? I can count outs but counting two-card combinations of turn/river is above my level for now. So is all that EV stuff!!!