View Full Version : AA vrs. ????

02-27-2003, 05:56 AM
Just wondering, what is the best hand to have againest AA preflop, and why? All in terms of having the best chance of winning after all the cards are dealt.

02-27-2003, 04:01 PM
Obviously the best hand is the other AA, but excepting this one possibility:

In terms of best chance of winning, it is 78s, at 22.874% against an AA without the ace of it's suit. However, 56s is a better hand to have because it makes up for slightly fewer outright wins by having more ties (expected return 23.056%).

These hands are the best because they have flush, straight, two pair, and 3 of a kind outs against AA and they don't have counterfeit str8 possibilities (imagine 98 against AA with a board of jqktx).

Am I missing anything?

02-27-2003, 05:22 PM
I asked this question a few months ago on the Texas Holdem forum and got a couple of useful answers (http://www.twoplustwo.com/forums/showthreaded.php?Board=holdem&Number=158006).

You can run some simulations on the excellent twodimes.net (http://twodimes.net/poker/) web page. Here are a few results for the EV of certain hands heads up against Ah-Ad:

Ks-Kc 0.187
Kh-Kd 0.174

6s-6c 0.202
6h-6d 0.189

Js-Tc 0.180
Js-3c 0.128
7s-2c 0.126

It's interesting that pocket sixes does better against aces than pocket kings does. I'm not sure why that is. Perhaps because if pocket kings makes a set, it's a bit easier for the aces to hit a straight.

02-27-2003, 10:49 PM
"It's interesting that pocket sixes does better against aces than pocket kings does. I'm not sure why that is. Perhaps because if pocket kings makes a set, it's a bit easier for the aces to hit a straight. "

Also the sixes can make more straights.


02-28-2003, 03:04 AM
Thanks for the replies, exactly what I was looking for.

03-06-2003, 04:07 PM
So is this to say that middle suited connectors are to be the hand of choice to play against raisers form early position?

Since they would require additional callers to get the needed pot odds, are they still effective? Or do the extra callers' chances of winning outweight the money that goes into to pot?


03-06-2003, 06:49 PM
Even with the best hand against Aces (around 3-1 odds against), I don't think you would want to willingly get involved heads up if you knew what your opponent had pocket rockets. Seeing as the odds for something like 78s are much worse against a hand like AK of the same suit or even TT, its just a losing proposition in the long run.

I suppose if you were playing no limit and could see the flop relativly cheap and your opponent would always call your all-in when you made a hand yet not charge you too much to draw out on him ... but thats prolly asking a bit too much

03-07-2003, 03:31 PM
Hi Nottom,
Maybe I was a little unclear. I was basically asking if middle suited connectors are the best to play against early position raisers... and if so what's the optimum number of callers to balance your pot odds against the chance of the
additional callers drawing out on you too...

The assumption being that an early position raiser is likely to have some strength. Somewhat of a generalization vrs. the AA the original poster was discussing.

I was trying to determine if a basic strategy point exists here.

On the other hand, if additional callers do not add enough money to the pot to justify continuing against these additional callers... might be a -EV scenario no matter what you do.

My intuition says... more callers equals more pot odds, but it also equals more hands that could hit against you... so it seems some sort of balancing act to get the max EV might exist where Middle Suited Connectors or any other fair to middlin' hand is concerned.


03-10-2003, 06:17 PM
I'm not really the expert but my gut feeling is that after a couple callers, they should play better than you may think. Basically you fall into a case of being able to bail easily if you miss but should have really good implied odds when you hit a straight, two pair, or trips since people are less likely to give you credit for playing such a "weak" hand (Note: I don't really see a flush as the best hand to hit here moneywise as people will be more likely to suspect the flush ... not that its bad, just not the best option).

I really don't know the numbers, but I think its prolly a reasonable idea to occasionally call with these hands in order to mix up your play.