View Full Version : KK post-flop with Ace on the board

07-21-2005, 09:04 PM
I thought this was an interesting hand. Comments on all streets would be appreciated. This is the first hand of a PP $22. I'll add my thoughts and the results after a few replies.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t15 (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

CO (t800)
Button (t800)
SB (t800)
Hero (t800)
UTG (t800)
UTG+1 (t800)
UTG+2 (t800)
MP1 (t800)
MP2 (t800)
MP3 (t800)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, MP1 calls t15, MP2 calls t15, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, SB completes, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t75</font>, MP1 calls t60, MP2 folds, SB folds.

Flop: (t177.50) 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 6/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 bets t75</font>, Hero calls t75.

Turn: (t327.50) Q/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, MP1 checks.

River: (t327.50) 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 bets t275</font>, Hero calls t275.

Final Pot: t877.50

07-21-2005, 09:12 PM
Arrgh. Hard spot, but I think you played it as well as it could have been played. Cept I think I fold the river, I think Villain's got me beat.

07-21-2005, 09:17 PM
I like it.
Here, I would raise to 175. If he calls or reraises, you're probably beat. Check/fold till the river at that point, unless he checks behind you on 4th street and then bets a small amount like t75 behind you on the river. Then call the river.

07-21-2005, 10:48 PM
Pre-flop I think my line is standard. When he called, I put him on a weak-ish ace or a medium PP.

On the flop, I chose to check rather than to make a probe bet because I felt that if he was loose enough to call a sizeable raise pre-flop with a weak ace that he would also call or raise on the flop when he paired his ace. I checked with the intention of calling a bet hoping that if he had a weak ace that we'd check the hand down and if he had a PP, that he'd bet once and we'd again check it down, this time with me gaining a few chips along the way. I also thought about a him having a flush draw on the flop.

The turn went check, check, and my range for him didn't change since the turn check behind was probably standard for any of those hands (weak ace, PP, flush draw). The river came a spade, putting a 3-flush on the board. His bet seemed large not to have a hand better than KK, but I called anyway for a couple of reasons. One was that I could also see him making this bet with a hand like KQ, JJ, or TT, though in hindsight I would think he'd check JJ and TT. I think I had to have put him on at least an ace here, and likely a flush, and that a fold would have been standard on the river. The other reason was that a call wouldn't kill me since it was so early.

It turns out he did have KTs with the flush. I managed to build my stack back to t835, but still busted OTM. If I could have seen his cards, a continuation bet would have been the correct play on the flop, though I wasn't crazy about making one out of position. I think I played the hand ok until the river. Hopefully my thought process is online with others'.

07-21-2005, 11:01 PM
I see your points. For me though, I think it kind of all comes back to the classic "If you have a pocket pair, an overcard comes on the flop and you don't make a set, you're probably beat." Now with pocket Kings, a steal attempt is probably worth it on the flop if you're willing to lay down your cards when called or raised. Plus, with those two spades out, there is no way I give a free card to a guy behind who may be holding spades. I think I said check-raise to t175 before, but a good sized "probe" bet (at least t100) is more likely. I'd be prepared to check/fold though after that if he calls or raises me on it.

07-22-2005, 02:57 AM
That river bet is either a sophisticated bet milking an ace after checking the turn, or a bluff with TT,JJ or a lower PP. I probably fold too though. How about a small defensive bet on the river? It's less likely he's raising with 2 pair or an ace if we bet like 100.

07-22-2005, 02:51 PM
Hmmm... I would have raised him on the flop. Test him early. I'd be scared not only of an ace, but of the flush draw.

Giving him not one but two free cards seems like giving him two free chances to improve against your pair.

If he called the raise, I'd have checked the turn and folded to a bet... But I'd rather risk a bet early than late and make it harder for him to risk making his hand at the river...

07-22-2005, 03:11 PM
Either lead out that flop for somewhere between 3/4 and the pot or check-raise it. He made a weak flop bet.

On the river I think you have to fold. When I read the hand history, prior to reading the results, I thought to myself, ah - he hit the flush. I don't know if JJ or TT are going to bet that river with the A and Q on the board. Other than that, an A or spade draw look to be the only hands that would make a weak bet (if a weak A), check the turn and then bet the river. Given that the flush hit on the river when he woke up and made a nice bet, the flush looks like the most likely to me.

07-22-2005, 03:39 PM
I like the flop call.

I think raising the flop is a good way to find out if he likes his hand, but I don't think raising to 175 is going to do it. He'll only have to call 100 in a pot of 400, which he could do with a lot of hands. I think in order to define where we are we would have to raise a lot more than we want to.