View Full Version : $10+1 vs. $50+5

07-21-2005, 05:27 PM
Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Button (t925)
SB (t1000)
BB (t1265)
Hero (t800)
UTG+1 (t1490)
MP1 (t1245)
MP2 (t775)
MP3 (t1665)
CO (t835)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif.
Hero calls t30, UTG+1 calls t30, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP2 calls t30, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (t150) K/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t125</font>, UTG+1 folds, MP2 folds, <font color="#CC3333">SB raises to t400</font>, BB folds, Hero ?

What would you do in a $10+1 and what would you do in a $50+5 in this spot?

07-21-2005, 05:28 PM
fold pf at both

07-21-2005, 05:36 PM
God, and I thought I was tight. Do you play AQ in the early levels?

Slim Pickens
07-21-2005, 05:40 PM
10+1: Easy all-in and I don't think it's close. Of the hands that are beating you right now, I would expect SB to have raised preflop AA, KK, AK, and quite often A9 and 99 as well. Almost no one in the 10's gives a flying care about position or the number of people in a pot. They see pretty-looking cards and raise. Most likely, the check-raise is coming from a naked ace or king, or a spade flush draw. If you're unlucky, SB has A/images/graemlins/spade.gif4/images/graemlins/spade.gif or something like that.

50+5: OK, here I'm talking out my a$$, but I'll put in a word and hopefully get flame-corrected if it sucks. The limps from UTG+1 and MP2 mean more here, so I'm still a little nervous about betting out TPTK early on in the tournament into a small pot with a semi-scary board. Betting puts me in a tough spot if raised, so I'm less inclined to bet in the first place. After betting and getting raised, I probably fold to the raise, then get pissed when he shows KTo.

07-21-2005, 05:41 PM
I agree I would have folded preflop UTG. I will play AQ if im in late position in the early levels but I see no reason to call UTG with it.

Slim Pickens
07-21-2005, 05:41 PM
I doubt you can play winning poker at a high level without learning how to play AQo for a profit UTG here. Someone correct me if I'm wrong about this.

EDIT: With the blind/stack ratio where it is here, you have to at least call. There are other times when it might be a good fold, and certainly others where it would be a push.

07-21-2005, 05:46 PM
Great thread!....in a 10+1 id be willing to get all of my chips in the center. this is due to the fact that you will be called by a flush draw or a weak ace regularly. In a 55, im going to try and keep the pot small, and as a result, i usually wont lead at this flop. as it stands, calling is not an option, and i will virtually always fold. check raises are usually a sign of great strength.

07-21-2005, 05:46 PM
For me I think early levels post flop play at the 55s is where people are weakest. People are better when it comes to pushmonkey time in the late levels vs my limited 22s and 33s experience. The early level post flop play is terrible and I think its about on par with what the 25NL was on the 50x BB days. This could also be because I just moved over from NL ring and am still getting used to blind stealing, maybe not.

Edit: Oh yes, and I fold to the reraise at the 55s unless the villian is a total donk. I've never played an 11, so can't comment on that...

07-21-2005, 05:47 PM
In a 10+1, I'd push because he has A7, JJ, or a flush draw. In 50+5, I'd fold. You're betting that flop into a field with 4 others so he'd have to have you on at least an ace and it's unlikely he's raising with AJ or lower.

07-21-2005, 05:50 PM
I would also like to hear what others think about calling preflop here. As much as everyone hates AQ around here I would think calling utg and playing out of postion would be stupid.

07-21-2005, 05:57 PM
God, and I thought I was tight. Do you play AQ in the early levels?

[/ QUOTE ]

just a preference i suppose, but i most always fold Aqo utg at this blind level as well. Aqo is generally a hand i like to define preflop with a raise but there is no way im raising Aqo at a full table from utg with these blinds. therefore i let it go.

that being said, i think id push here at an 11 although by not defining the hand pf you cant be certain if there isnt some random k9/a9 two pair or Ax of spades out there.

not sure about a 50... not there yet.

07-21-2005, 06:02 PM
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&amp;Number=2916692&amp;page=10&amp;view= collapsed&amp;sb=5&amp;o=14&amp;fpart=1

07-21-2005, 06:05 PM
I raise AQo UTG in lvl 1 100% of the time. 66x BB is plenty deep enough in that when you find out you are behind you haven't lost to much of your stack. In lvl 2 it depends, but I raise most times, maybe 80%, and limp the rest. I am more likely to raise at a tighht table, and cll when its late and there are donks aplenty. But then again I'm more loose and aggresive then most here would advocate in the early levels.

Edit: I got to thinking and decided to do some analysing in PT. I filtered to 10 ppl only and eliminated all but UTG, UTG +1 and UTG+2 (you have to filter to 10 ppl because of the way PT works). I'm pretty profitable from EP in lvl 1 with a VPIP of 10%. In level 2 it drops to 5% and is about break even so maybe I'm not playing as much in EP in lvl 2 as I thought. Sample sizes are small though.

07-21-2005, 06:41 PM
I fold PF on both, would call if it was suited.

07-21-2005, 08:26 PM
I think we all agree that this is a push in a $10+1. There are enough monkeys out there that will raise (and call a re-raise) w/ draws. It's a pretty straightforward hand at that level. I'm prolly C/R all-in in a $10+1.

I think this hand becomes interesting when you put it in the context of a $55 (the chip count gives it away that this is from a $55). There's always a monkey or two playing there, but most players at this level are very proud of their "correct" playing. The amount of table professors you run into is just astonishing.

This makes them absurdely predictable: in this hand you can put the SB on A9 or 99. You'll be correct 95% of the time. I don't think he's bluffing this pot OTP after I bet into 4 other players in level 2. These players know that it's not worth it just as much as I do.

If I hadn't bet, and someone did bet after me, I wouldn't have a clue where I standed. I would be forced into investing a lot more chips before understanding that SB had me beat. The only hand that I see raising on a semi-bluff is Q/images/graemlins/spade.gifJ/images/graemlins/spade.gif, and if SB has it, I'm not calling his raise even with the cards turned face up. It's a coinflip that I don't need to take right now.

Anyways... Enough rambling. I liked my play at first, then hated it, then started to like it again as I was writing this. I moved from the $11s to the $55s, and it was the best decision ever for me. I found it very interesting how the same hand can be so different just by changing the buy-in level.

Edit: I'm a moron and I did some absurd conclusions about the hand. Fixed.

07-21-2005, 08:38 PM
In both I'm all in, I aint folding.


07-21-2005, 08:38 PM
In general, I think you guys are giving too much credit to the typical player at the 55s. I didn't really notice a huge difference in quality of play until I hit the 109s.