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View Full Version : why was i able to reraise?


citanul
07-21-2005, 01:40 AM
***** Hand History for Game 2397934959 *****
NL Texas Hold'em $100 Buy-in + $9 Entry Fee Trny:14116312 Level:8 Blinds(200/400) - Thursday, July 21, 01:38:38 EDT 2005
Table Table 35039 (Real Money)
Seat 7 is the button
Total number of players : 5
Seat 7: stevegaul ( $597 )
Seat 10: EZDuzzy ( $1950 )
Seat 3: pertpirtle ( $2736 )
Seat 8: DBCooper420 ( $3127 )
Seat 1: citanul ( $1590 )
Trny:14116312 Level:8
Blinds(200/400)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to citanul [ Kd Kc ]
citanul calls [400].
pertpirtle folds.
stevegaul is all-In [597]
DBCooper420 folds.
EZDuzzy calls [197].
citanul is all-In [1190]

shouldn't i have not been able to reraise there?

citanul

durron597
07-21-2005, 01:41 AM
Known party bug.

curtains
07-21-2005, 01:43 AM
Thats a bug? Didnt know that. I figured that because he made the first raise you can reraise him. However if you raised to 800 and he went allin for like 100 more, then you cannot. Is this a party bug or the actual rule?

The Yugoslavian
07-21-2005, 01:43 AM
B/c you're f*ckin citanul, MIGHTY moderator and green 2+2 STT forum member.

BOW DOWN!!!

Yugoslav

Slim Pickens
07-21-2005, 01:51 AM
Known Party bug, which by the I pointed out about six months ago, starting a chorus of "shut up you stoopid n00b you cant do that its not a full raise lmaololol."

Slim Pickens
07-21-2005, 02:08 AM
Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t15 (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

CO (t905)
Button (t680)
SB (t825)
BB (t735)
UTG (t470)
UTG+1 (t1140)
UTG+2 (t790)
MP1 (t1465)
Hero (t910)
MP3 (t80)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG calls t15, UTG+1 calls t15, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t60</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 raises all-in t80</font>,<font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, UTG calls t65, UTG+1 calls t65, Hero calls t20.

wtf! It didn't let me here.

curtains
07-21-2005, 02:17 AM
This is what I explained. When you LIMP IN, then the first raise is made, you are allowed to reraise no matter what I thought....at least on Party. Perhaps this isnt a rule in real life.

In the above example, you RAISED and then were reraised less than the amount of your initial raise. Thus you cannot move allin.

mike28
07-21-2005, 02:22 AM
Because God knew that limping KK at lvl 8 is a sin and wanted to give you the opportunity to correct it.

nate_king1
07-21-2005, 02:25 AM
CITNAL DID YOU WIN?

Howd you fair in that tourny were all dying to know!

Scuba Chuck
07-21-2005, 02:40 AM
Apparently I can't read HHs. Doesn't it reflect that you did reraise?

[ QUOTE ]
Dealt to citanul [ Kd Kc ]
citanul calls [400].
pertpirtle folds.
stevegaul is all-In [597]
DBCooper420 folds.
EZDuzzy calls [197].
citanul is all-In [1190]

[/ QUOTE ]

flyingmoose
07-21-2005, 02:51 AM
I'm super confused by your limp.

Do you limp a lot of hands for 1/4 your stack or do you only limp big pairs? Assuming the latter is true, wouldn't the 109ers figure you out pretty fast?

fluorescenthippo
07-21-2005, 02:51 AM
hes asking why WAS he able to. i misread it as wasnt also at first

curtains
07-21-2005, 02:52 AM
Yeah, FWIW I'd never limp here.

Scuba Chuck
07-21-2005, 02:55 AM
[ QUOTE ]
hes asking why WAS he able to. i misread it as wasnt also at first

[/ QUOTE ]

Man it's late. I'm off to bed. 2AM CST ~ yawn.

Slim Pickens
07-21-2005, 03:07 AM
/images/graemlins/confused.gif &lt;--- me trying to figure out the rules of poker

HesseJam
07-21-2005, 04:51 AM
So, usually, a re-re-raise is not possible at Party's? I wondered that sometimes myself, why I couldn't do that.

tigerite
07-21-2005, 04:57 AM
Not when someone goes all-in, under certain circumstances.

HesseJam
07-21-2005, 05:03 AM
I looked up the rules on Party:

Betting Structure for No-Limit Holdem Poker

"Minimum raise: The raise amount must be at least as much as the previous bet or raise in the same round. As an example, if the first player to act bets $100 then the second player must raise a minimum of $100 (total bet of $200).
Maximum eligible raise: The size of your stack (your chips on the table) "



So, theoretically you are allowed to re-re-raise. But you need to have at least the same amount of chips for your re-re-raise as the last bet/ raise.

In your example your raise was 400 and you had more than 400. stevegaul was all-in with 597 (does that count as a 197 raise or as a 597 raise?). So you had to have at least 400 (597?) left to reraise.

Another example:

BB: 400
Hero (EP): (2000)
Villian (MP): (1200)
Big Blind: (4000)

You raise to 900, you have 1100 left
Villian all-in with 1200
Big Blind fills up to 1200 (has 2800 left).

Does Villian's all-in count as a 300 or a 1200 raise? In the first case you should be able to reraise your 1100, in the latter you can only complete his all-in.

Somebody know?

Jay36489
07-21-2005, 05:06 AM
You aren't supposed to be allowed to do that. The general rule is that in NL you aren't allowed to reraise if there was not a full size raise in front of you. Apparently Party misses it if you limp, then get a partial raise. Some casinos allow a reraise if the raise is more then half a raise in limit HE.

The party bug that annoys me the most is the blinds getting screwed up when a blind gets knocked out. You aren't supposed to miss a blind ever, and I have been bubbled when someone has missed a blind when they should have been knocked out.

Jay36489
07-21-2005, 05:08 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Another example:

BB: 400
Hero (EP): (2000)
Villian (MP): (1200)
Big Blind: (4000)

You raise to 900, you have 1100 left
Villian all-in with 1200
Big Blind fills up to 1200 (has 2800 left).

Does Villian's all-in count as a 300 or a 1200 raise? In the first case you should be able to reraise your 1100, in the latter you can only complete his all-in.

Somebody know?

[/ QUOTE ]

Thats a 300 raise and you can't reraise. BB can, however, reraise becuase he has not yet acted.

curtains
07-21-2005, 05:09 AM
[ QUOTE ]
You aren't supposed to be allowed to do that. The general rule is that in NL you aren't allowed to reraise if there was not a full size raise in front of you. Apparently Party misses it if you limp, then get a partial raise. Some casinos allow a reraise if the raise is more then half a raise in limit HE.

The party bug that annoys me the most is the blinds getting screwed up when a blind gets knocked out. You aren't supposed to miss a blind ever, and I have been bubbled when someone has missed a blind when they should have been knocked out.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok first of all there is a big hole here. I believe that you technically are allowed to raise in citanuls spot. After the allin player, its obvious that any of the people yet to act can move allin, and they chose not to. However once its folded back to citanul, is he not allowed to raise because he already limped? I believe he is allowed to raise and that everyone here is misunderstanding the rules.

You cannot raise when you OPEN RAISE and then someone moves allin for an amt that is less than half of the raise you made. So if you raise to 800 and blinds are 200-400, and they move allin for 900, you cannot reraise, but if they move allin for 1100 you CAN reraise.

HesseJam
07-21-2005, 05:10 AM
Oh, that's a bug? I didn't know that. I always wondered what kind of a f'ed rule that was.

Jay36489
07-21-2005, 05:15 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Ok first of all there is a big hole here. I believe that you technically are allowed to raise in citanuls spot. After the allin player, its obvious that any of the people yet to act can move allin, and they chose not to. However once its folded back to citanul, is he not allowed to raise because he already limped? I believe he is allowed to raise and that everyone here is misunderstanding the rules.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't believe so. Check out Robert's Rules (http://www.homepokertourney.com/rules_roberts.htm#NO-LIMIT%20RULES) on this.

[ QUOTE ]
3. All raises must be equal to or greater than the size of the previous bet or raise on that betting round, except for an all-in wager. A player who has already acted and is not facing a fullsize wager may not subsequently raise an all-in bet that is less than the minimum bet (which is the amount of the minimum bring-in), or less than the full size of the last bet or raise. (The half-the-size rule for reopening the betting is for limit poker only.)

[/ QUOTE ]

To my understanding if you have already acted and are not facing a full size raise, you can not reraise regardless of if you called the BB or open raised.

curtains
07-21-2005, 05:26 AM
Ok I believe you /images/graemlins/smile.gif I don't limp so often in spots that turn out like this, so I never really knew.

Jay36489
07-21-2005, 05:30 AM
Well you wouldn't know if you play at party because of the bug /images/graemlins/smile.gif I just know becuase this question gets asked in the B&amp;M forum a lot.

HesseJam
07-21-2005, 05:56 AM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Another example:

BB: 400
Hero (EP): (2000)
Villian (MP): (1200)
Big Blind: (4000)

You raise to 900, you have 1100 left
Villian all-in with 1200
Big Blind fills up to 1200 (has 2800 left).

Does Villian's all-in count as a 300 or a 1200 raise? In the first case you should be able to reraise your 1100, in the latter you can only complete his all-in.

Somebody know?

[/ QUOTE ]

Thats a 300 raise and you can't reraise. BB can, however, reraise becuase he has not yet acted.

[/ QUOTE ]

Interesting. I didn't know that. So "acted" here means a raise and not merely calling?

tigerite
07-21-2005, 06:00 AM
[ QUOTE ]

The party bug that annoys me the most is the blinds getting screwed up when a blind gets knocked out. You aren't supposed to miss a blind ever, and I have been bubbled when someone has missed a blind when they should have been knocked out.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's not so much a bug as how they choose to handle it. It goes something like this:

1) If only the big blind is knocked out, next hand there is no small blind. (this one's quite obvious)

2) If only the small blind is knocked out, the dealer button doesn't move.

3) If both dealer and small blind are knocked out, the dealer button goes back one place.

4) If both dealer and big blind are knocked out, then the dealer button moves as normal, but no small blind next hand.

5) If both blinds are knocked out, the dealer button stays where it is, and there is no small blind next hand.

6) If all three are knocked out (dealer, small, big blind) the dealer button goes back one, and there is no small blind next hand.

The once and future king
07-21-2005, 07:23 AM
On Stars if someone goes all in in front of you you can only call the allin however anyone acting after you can reraise you.

This is feckin infuriating if you want to isolate the all in. However it dosnt seem to apply 100% and there must be some arcane betting rules I am unaware of because I only ever play poker on the internet.

citanul
07-21-2005, 11:28 AM
[ QUOTE ]
CITNAL DID YOU WIN?

Howd you fair in that tourny were all dying to know!

[/ QUOTE ]

actually i'm pretty sure no one cares.

[ QUOTE ]
I'm super confused by your limp.

Do you limp a lot of hands for 1/4 your stack or do you only limp big pairs? Assuming the latter is true, wouldn't the 109ers figure you out pretty fast?

[/ QUOTE ]

well, i'm pretty sure i'd never played with any of the player at that table before, and the table had a few limps going on, so a player who wasn't paying too much attention would just sort of see something par for the course. i don't limp often with large blinds. however, in this spot, i thought the likelihood of the short stack going all-in was &gt;50%, the likelihood of someone overpushing him was about 50% when he did do that, the rest of the time getting at least the bb caller. in situations where the small stack didn't push, i felt like it was about &gt;75% that some other player would raise the pot.

in this spot, i was unhappy with my stack, and wasn't going to be especially happy with winning just the blinds. i didn't feel that a push would be likely to be called, and the short stack, a lurking twoplustwoer, i thought would surely fold and push some other hand or wait for his blinds if i pushed.

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, FWIW I'd never limp here.

[/ QUOTE ]

granted. and that's perfectly reasonable. i think that limping given the table conditions and the fact that i really wanted to have 3k or 3k+ chips, and thought this was a high % way to get there, was a reasonable move.

meh, i really didn't want to talk about strategy at all here, i just wanted to know what the hell was up with the reraisability.

citanul

schwza
07-21-2005, 11:57 AM
[ QUOTE ]

This is what I explained. When you LIMP IN, then the first raise is made, you are allowed to reraise no matter what I thought....at least on Party. Perhaps this isnt a rule in real life.

In the above example, you RAISED and then were reraised less than the amount of your initial raise. Thus you cannot move allin.

[/ QUOTE ]

can anyone confirm this? does post-flop play "normally" i.e., like b&amp;m?

trdi
07-21-2005, 12:02 PM
I actually read an article about this particular rule at Cardplayer.com and it was said that this rule is not the same in all B&amp;M casinos. In some of them you can raise and in other you can't.

ChuckyB
07-21-2005, 07:27 PM
From From Robert's Rules of Poker (Bob Ciaffone)

All raises must be equal to or greater than the size of the previous bet or raise on that betting round, except for an all-in wager. A player who has already acted and is not facing a fullsize wager may not subsequently raise an all-in bet that is less than the minimum bet (which is the amount of the minimum bring-in), or less than the full size of the last bet or raise. (The half-the-size rule for reopening the betting is for limit poker only.)

Why doesn't PP fix this?