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11t
07-19-2005, 03:56 PM
I hate being put in situations like this.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t200 (4 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Hero (t3290)
BB (t3110)
UTG (t2135)
Button (t4965)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 9/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t600</font>, BB calls t400.

Flop: (t1075) 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 8/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets t800</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t2665</font>

Bigwig
07-19-2005, 03:57 PM
I like it.

dinero2433
07-19-2005, 04:17 PM
Do we know anything about BB? We would prefer not to be called here, so judging this play probably depends on the read. I like it if you think the player is reasonably solid - A good player will find it difficult to call with top pair or even two pair after your check-raise, especially given his still very competitive chip position.

11t
07-19-2005, 04:24 PM
A solid player isn't calling a raise with q8os.

durron597
07-19-2005, 04:47 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I hate being put in situations like this.

[/ QUOTE ]

Really? It's situations like this why I make money at poker.

This could not be more standard.

Edit: don't do this if BB is the sort of player who needs a hand to make this bet (like QJ+). If he is, just open push.

dinero2433
07-19-2005, 05:05 PM
Precisely - which is why I think you made a good play if BB is a reasonably solid player. If he's not, he might call with Q8o.

skierdude1000
07-19-2005, 05:12 PM
If BB is a real solid player, he's going to bet out with probably a queen or overcards.... pushing over the top will get you called if he has a queen

11t
07-19-2005, 05:20 PM
I still prefer checking even if the bb isn't the sort of player who will make this bet.

We are on the bubble and survival is key, open pushing here is a pretty big overbet of the pot and is going to get me called by worse hands than check-raising. If I check and he checks behind I take a free card off, I would probably bet 800 at whatever turn hit if he is checking behind me whether I hit or not.

Basically my idea is this, if I check and he raises I dump back. If I check and he checks behind I get one card to hit a pair/draw and I am betting out no matter what hits. Is my logic ridiculous?

dinero2433
07-19-2005, 05:29 PM
You think so? I'm laying down a queen if I get reraised all in here. Is that a week play on my part?

durron597
07-19-2005, 05:51 PM
[ QUOTE ]

and is going to get me called by worse hands than check-raising.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is simply not true. You have him covered.

And the pot is decent sized, you increase your stack by 30% if you take it down.

If he checks behind, you lead out for 800 and he pushes do you call? Of course not.

durron597
07-19-2005, 05:52 PM
[ QUOTE ]
You think so? I'm laying down a queen if I get reraised all in here. Is that a week play on my part?

[/ QUOTE ]

It depends on my kicker. AQ I call. QT I fold. QJ and KQ are tough.

lastchance
07-19-2005, 06:03 PM
Are normal players laying down QT here?

durron597
07-19-2005, 06:34 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Are normal players laying down QT here?

[/ QUOTE ]

Meh. I can't believe I wrote that what was I thinking.

The problem is, if I lose this hand I lose the tournament. But there has to be some kicker where it is correct to fold, no?

curtains
07-19-2005, 06:40 PM
Don't like it, I'd move allin first to act. Pot is too big, you are happy to take it down now and his bet could be too pot committing in this case.

lastchance
07-19-2005, 06:53 PM
Heh.

I agree with curtainz. This is a tough spot. I think the pot is too big to check-raise all-in, but also too small to bet all-in, at least optimally.

Still, you've got to do one of the two, and I suppose it depends on Villain.