View Full Version : The "Poker" Economy

09-21-2001, 12:56 AM
Yesterday at the Bellagio the dealers and brushes were talking about layoffs, short weeks, and generally complaining about not making any money due to the "crisis". After hearing these concerns for awhile, I spotted a "local" 15-30 hold 'em player at the 8-16 game. When I asked him why he was slumming, he stated - "oh, the economy is so bad that there are no tourists around and I cannot play that (15-30) game with all rocks!" He continued, "I cannot make any money- I've been struggling all week"! Later, I discussed this same issue with another player who told me the games he was playing in all week were "terrible". It is true that our tourism is already suffering in Vegas, and that the "locals" are "playing with themselves" for the most part. For some reason I thought to myself "wow, things must be really bad if poker players are complaining about their "living", and this struck me as rather amusing. As I was driving home that evening another thought struck me: If someone is a good player, why worry about playing the locals? Sure, they are less likely to be loose and passive, but the best players will win anyway, yes? The "easy money" is gone for awhile, I'm afraid - both at the poker tables and in the stock market. But this presents a challenge to all of us, no matter what our game, and demands that the "best" rise to the top, despite the circumstances. Bring on the locals!!

09-21-2001, 07:21 PM
poker babe,

I think that you are going to be game selective on the weekdays. You may want to try internet poker Monday through Thursday. On the weekends you should be able to count on players making road trips from California, Arizona, and Utah.

Just to note that many people are fed up with the airlines. My mother just came back from Vegas Sunday. They searched through all her belonging and would not let her take her purse on the plane. They made her pack it in her luggage. My mom has arthitis and can barely walk. So, I don't think she is a threat. If they want to hijack the plane they could still do it. It's been reported in the news that these terrorists have learned how to slit someones throat with a credit card.

Good Luck with your games.


09-22-2001, 10:34 AM
"If someone is a good player, why worry about playing the locals? "

Poker Babe(y),

If you have read any of my stuff you may know that I have always been 180% out of phase with the conventional wisdom concerning game selection. I have always professed that mid limit players need not pay attention to game selection. One must learn to adapt to all game conditions. Winners do.


09-22-2001, 04:53 PM
"I have always professed that mid limit players need not pay attention to game selection."

This makes no sense to me Vince. Why on earth would you butt heads with tough opponents for a 1/2 or 1 BB an hour (with little or no edge), when across the room or in another casino you can make 3 or more BB in a soft seat against soft opponents? It's a no-brainer to sit in the soft seat.

"One must learn to adapt to all game conditions. Winners do."

Of course this is true, especially in a tournament situation or if you are sitting at the only table in town.And we would all like to say (and prove) that we can beat any game in town, but let's let common sense and not our own egos dictate where we should really be sitting as we do battle on the green felt.

won't there be enough chances to prove your mettle against tough opponents anyways when a soft seat isn't available anyhow? Won't the money made in the softer games come in handy when you get in the tougher games? JMHO

09-22-2001, 06:58 PM

2 years ago I played in Vegas for a seven month stretch, I played 15 holdem at Bellagios for 5 days a week. the one thing I remeber is that the pro's were like jack rabbits. Hopping from one table to another. I reused to move from my original table. Occaisionally I would change seats but almost never tables. Invariably the game that I was sitting at would become good if it wasn't good already. so changing to get into a good game is almost never necessary. Just wait and be patient and sooner or later you game (mid limit) will get better. But that isn't the reason I recommend not worrying about game selection for a mid limit player. First let me say that if you have a choice etween a good game and a tough game then don't be foolish. got to the good game. That's quite different than worrying or spying the other available games to see if ytou should move from yur current table because it's tough. Yes I recommend seizing the moment. The game is just as tough for the others at the table even tougher if you happen to tbe the best player there. Believe me some pro's are better than other pro's. they didn't get that way by avoiding tough games. Mid limit poker is the proving ground of poker. It's were you earn your bones. It's where you learn to become a professional. It's where you learn how to move up. You learn that by facing all competition. I do not profess to be all knowing or omiscient like David so I qualify my recommendation here with a "This is my opinion" The only one I know that has done it my way is me. It works for me. That's all.


09-22-2001, 10:07 PM
Vince- yesterday I played the 10-20 "early" game at the Mirage in Vegas with 5 "Nut Rocks". These guys are considered the BEST 10-20 players in Vegas and this game is considered one of the HARDEST to beat in the city. First of all, they wear you down just by their incessant chatter and replaying of hands, etc. If you happen to beat them in a hand, they immediately explain it away by saying they misplayed it (vs. you outplaying them). Get my drift? When you call their raise or reraise them, they look at you as if to say " you are calling ME"? It is almost comical. When I spoke to one of my poker pals today about this, his first question was "WHY WOULD YOU PLAY THERE?" and he looked at me as though I had blonde hair! I told him that it is "good for me" to play one of the "hardest games in town" and get respect in it! It sharpens my play, helps me learn to be a better player, and keeps me humble and AMUSED at the same time. Amused because these guys really are "ego-centric" and being a woman poker player, I just love to "get em"! No, I did not win a ton of money, (in fact, it was less than 1 BB an hour), but I am "making my bones" for sure by playing with the "tough" guys. Today, I went to Bellagio and played in a mostly tourist 15-30 game, and used some of what I learned yesterday to win easily and quickly. Some would say that is because of my better "game selection" today. I think it is because I am prepared by having played the "tougher" games. Love, Babe(y).

09-22-2001, 10:37 PM

I see what you mean now and your further guidence on the matter does make more sense to me than just your initial blanket statement about not paying attention to game selection. For me, I'm just now taking my shot at the middle limits and game selection is very important to me and my finite (but growing) bankroll.

09-23-2001, 01:26 AM
"I'm just now taking my shot at the middle limits and game selection is very important to me and my finite (but growing) bankroll."


You make a very important point here. When I was learning to play poker I had a day job. Pretty good income. So I was not playing on a limited bankroll. I will concede that BR is a consideration with regards to my comments about game selection.


09-23-2001, 01:42 AM
Poker Babe,

I am going to have to agree with your friend "WHY WOULD YOU PLAY THERE?" I know, I know i said play in tough games. But i din't sau go out of your way to do it. And don't do it beccause you need practice playing tough games. I tdon't work that way. Although I doubt very much that you need my advice I would like to offer a comment that may sond like advice but it'd really just an opinion, mine. Smart people, of which I believe you are one, take up playing poker because they find that there is more to the game than calling heads or tails. They recognize that it is a game of skill and thought. Believe it or not the prime motivator is the ego. I am smart. I can beat that game. Ego is necessay for a poker player to become a winner. No question. You must believe in your ability, yourself and use that confidence to learn the game. But once you learn the game "ego" may have an "egads" effect. It may drive you to play when you should not play. Stay too long when you are losing, overestimate your abilities, underestimate your opponents, second guess yourself, just a whole litany of bad things can result from a hungry ego. Especially if you reach the staus of "winner" over a good period of time. I know winning players that have quit when things got bad because they couldn't accept the fact they were being beat by "inferior" players. i believe their ego's got in the way of them regaining their winning ways.

My point here is that there is no need to seek out "The Man" (Cincinati Kid) to practice playing against a tough player. Just go and play at your favorite watering hole and let things happen naturally. It will. You'll keep improving because you want to and you sound as if you are willing to do what's necessary to be as good as you can be. Just don't force it/

One other thing. I do have one rule about Game Selection. I try and play in games where I will have fun.


09-23-2001, 02:09 AM
Vince- good, solid advice re: "the tough game". I will heed your comments. I agree that poker is fun and winning at poker is delightful -- no need for me to prove a point. Guess it was just a "mood". Thanks, pal. P.S. when will you visit my fair city?

09-23-2001, 11:33 AM
"when will you visit my fair city?"

Poker Babe,

God, I wish I knew. BTW - Most would not refer to "Lost Wages" as a "fair city". I like your style.