View Full Version : Are we being set up?

09-18-2001, 08:22 PM
A group of nineteen or more murderers hijack planes. Then they commit suicide by crashing them into buildings in the U.S. They commit suicide. But they leave no message explaining their reason or cause. If they could die for their cause why wouldn't at least one stick around to tell the world the why of it? Isn't that important? McVeigh thought so. Somethin about this smells.


09-18-2001, 09:20 PM
Interesting. No one has claimed responsibility, and Bin Laden denies his involvement. In the 1999 Time interview, he really didn't really deny responsibility for other acts he was accused of; he called himself an "instigator." In this case, he has denied any responsibility.

So to what end were the deeds done? Will we not find out until more occur?

09-18-2001, 10:35 PM
I do not believe the terrorists anticipated how their 9/11 attack would unite most of the world against them. Their silence may reflect their fear that this time, they went too far.

09-18-2001, 11:14 PM
"Their silence may reflect their fear that this time, they went too far."

Possible, but I don't buy it. If you are suicidal (willing to die for your cause) you don't care how far you go. So if you can die you can also live, tell about it and suffer the consequences or glory of you will.


09-18-2001, 11:51 PM
It is possible that some of the terrorist plotters are fearful of being killed. However, I was primarily talking about the fear that they may have damaged their cause (i.e., the spread of fundamentalist Islamic rule) by uniting most of the world, possibly including some quasi-allies, against them.



09-19-2001, 10:19 PM
I tend to agree with Michael. It's possible world reaction made it clear their cause was in jeopardy. I also think they underestimated this reaction and feared the U.S. would be given a green light to retaliate full force. I also disagree with your comment. I have doubts the higher ups in these organizations are prepared to die for their cause.

09-19-2001, 11:35 PM
I'd say their cause was to destroy American property and kill American citizens. Some people see America as inherently evil, in the same way you see these acts as inherently evil.

But if you're after a good old fashioned conspiracy theory, try http://www.guerrillanews.com/counter_intel/boom_bust_echo/index.html


09-21-2001, 05:53 AM
Here's a quote from the site you gave above:

"The second economic bomb that was ready to go off and which I warned about on Sept 9 was a 30 trillion dollar derivatives bubble spearheaded by JP Morgan-Chase(JPM) and 30 trillion would have collapsed the economy. Basically, the simplest form of derivative is a stock option where you can buy an option to purchase a share of stock trading at $80 for $1 and you can tie up trillions of dollars with little amounts of money. But if the economy fails you then become liable for the trillions of dollars that you have tied up. Excellent posts on this issue were placed at a website called lemetropolecafe.com that I strongly recommend people look at. And what I had said on September 9 was, 'look, this is going down and we're all going to burn.' And that was two days before the attack."

First of all, this is not how options work. Second of all, even if it was how options work, and taking the $80 stock for $1 that he quoted, he's saying that JPM spent $375 billion (and this is a fee, not a sum that they would be able to recover by selling something) just to tie up $30 trillion in stocks. This makes absolutely no sense. Also, when you buy an option, you are definitely not responsible for actually buying a stock, you just have some limited period of time during which you have the "option" of purchasing the stock at the price you locked up. It is a somewhat lower risk method of speculation, essentially like calling with a draw when the pot odds are correct. So what the hell is this guy talking about, and is this where Cyrus gets the "facts" he posts in the otehr topics forum?

09-21-2001, 03:44 PM

09-27-2001, 03:24 AM
Hey, I didn't say it made sense, I just said it was a good old fashioned conspiracy theory. All you have to do is just allege some kind of US government complicity in the attack. The details don't matter.


09-30-2001, 01:44 AM
The short answer is, "Yes, we're being set up."

One of the basic, in fact defining, characteristics of a terrorist act is the acription of blame for "causing" the act and the acceptance of "credit" for performing the act.

Essentially the only things that differentiate terrorism from any other crime are the political motive of the terrorist and the appearance of that political philosophy being advanced or demonstrated by the act itself. In this case, the US was to "blame" by being in Saudi Arabia and sullying the sacred sites of all Islam. The terrorists gain creedence for their political position by showing that Allah was actually all powerful because he allowed the "true and faithful" to fly the infidel's airplanes into the infidel's buildings.

The fact that noone has taken credit for the attacks indicates that the desired effect of the attacks hasn't been felt or that some other effect was generated instead. Given that bin Laden/Al-Qaeda are banking on the Holier-Than-The-Great-Satan angle, it follows that their loss of public support from places such as Pakistan, Tadjikistan and even Iran may have potentially damaged the leadership in the view of the members of the group.

The other option is that the attacks are simply not finished and the message won't be revealed to the "true and faithful" until the US has been given the full-meal-deal by the righteous of all Islam.

Most likely is a combination of the two. The US was hit hard and the terrorists didn't expect the speed or the global reach of the initial public outcry. They played the US National Anthem at the Changing of the Guard at Buckingham Palace and outside the US Embassy in Tashkent. Pro-US protesters staged an Islamic peace rally outside the US Embassy in Islamabad. Oops... maybe we hit the Great Satan too hard... let's wait and see what happens... meanwhile we'll just let page two of our cunning plan work its way out while the US jumps out its own ass trying to figure out what it is.

It's not over for the US and it's probably not even over for Al-Qaeda. When they go down there are a dozen more waiting to take their place. Some of those replacements will have enough money and cunning to fill the void created by bin Laden's fall. ObL is smart enough to understand that himself so it's very doubtful that he doesn't have a fallback plan in the event that this becomes too big for him personally. Fall back, regroup, let the new generation of Islamic hotheads take up the reins and crazy ol' unca' Osama will sit back and preach them the "Truth".

The US can either go to war completely and unequivocally and squash terrorists of every stripe where ever they're found. Or the US can make a giant public show of hunting Al-Qaeda down and proving that "we can't be pushed around by those damned towel-heads." It remains to be seen what the American public will want. The US is not known for a society wide degree of patience when it comes to solving it's problems. We want quick fixes and we want them now, damnit. Even today we've got people complaining that there aren't cruise missiles raining down on Afghanistan and Special Forces troops climbing in through people's windows in downtown Kabul. Quick fix, make it right and do it right now. Let's hope the US gets a longer attention span. They'd almost forgotten about Osama bin Laden between the '93 bombing of the WTC and the 9-11 attack. This is much bigger but even so, will the US be able to hold out its rage for the amount of time necessary to actually create the changes it desires?

Sigh... I guess I'm more bummed out than I thought... I hate terrorists. I hate people who kick kittens, rapists, child molesters, strong-arm robbers and the kind of people who think it's funny to jerk on a puppy's leash just to watch his tongue bulge out. I think I need a shot of good single-malt, an hour in a hot tub, a good massage and a mind-numbing orgasm or two. Then I'll still hate all of those I listed but I won't be nearly as bummed out... then I think it'll be time to play poker...

Jeff James

The Bar0n

Student of the world of Terrorists, Warfare and other things

the human race should be ashamed of.