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CallMeIshmael
06-24-2005, 10:06 PM
Half inspired by my last post and half inspired by the "Benal vs The USA" debacle in the RIAA post, I will share this tidbit with you.



In 1999, A&E's biography team got together to come up with what they called a "Biography of the Millenium." In which they saught to determine the 100 most influential people of the time period 1000-1999.

The list was compiled by a group of journalists, scientists, theologians, historians, and scholars.

Absent from the list at first glace were Candadians.

That is, until, you looked a little deeper.


At number 94, you see the term "Patient Zero." Who is this mysterious person you ask? Is he the Candadian deep throat?

Well... sort...

From Wilipedia:

In general, the term Patient Zero refers to the central or initial patient in the population sample of an epidemiological investigation.

In particular, it refers to Gatan Dugas (February 1953 March 30, 1984), a Canadian airline steward who was Patient Zero for an early epidemiological study on HIV by the Centers for Disease Control. His sexual partners were surveyed for the disease in order to demonstrate that it was sexually transmitted. Several of them were among the first few hundred to be diagnosed with AIDS. Dugas eventually died not of AIDS or complications related to AIDS, but of renal failure.

Dugas was not the first AIDS case in North America, but he was the first case to start an epidemic



And people say Canadians dont do anything important /images/graemlins/tongue.gif


(fwiw, top 5 were: 5. Shakespeare. 4. Darwin. 3. Luther. 2. Newton. 1. Guttenberg.)

(Also, the patient zero theory has been debunked)

gumpzilla
06-24-2005, 10:09 PM
[ QUOTE ]

(fwiw, top 5 were: 5. Shakespeare. 4. Darwin. 3. Luther. 2. Newton. 1. Guttenberg.)

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a pretty massive dropoff in influence moving to number 5.

tbach24
06-24-2005, 10:10 PM
Jim Carrey or Ray Borque

CallMeIshmael
06-24-2005, 10:11 PM
FWIW, 6-10 were:

6. Columbus
7. Marx
8. Einstein
9. Copernicus
10. Galileo


I do agree that 1-4 affected the world in a way different than every other person who lived in that time period.

poker-penguin
06-24-2005, 10:13 PM
Wayne Gretsky.

porkchop
06-24-2005, 10:15 PM
Why Borque over Gretzky ?

touchfaith
06-24-2005, 10:15 PM
Neil Peart

CallMeIshmael
06-24-2005, 10:15 PM
[ QUOTE ]
This is a pretty massive dropoff in influence moving to number 5.

[/ QUOTE ]

Also interesting to note, is that right after I saw it on TV, I asked my teachers who they thought was number 1.

Religion teacher: Guttenberg or Luther
English teacher: Shakespeare

Its ironic how that which you study biases your opinion on this matter (I would have said Darwin)

jason_t
06-24-2005, 10:15 PM
[ QUOTE ]
FWIW, 6-10 were:

6. Columbus
7. Marx
8. Einstein
9. Copernicus
10. Galileo


I do agree that 1-4 affected the world in a way different than every other person who lived in that time period.

[/ QUOTE ]

5. and 6. in that list are huge mistakes.

SuitedSixes
06-24-2005, 10:16 PM
Alex Trebek

tbach24
06-24-2005, 10:17 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Why Borque over Gretzky ?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm from MA.

tbach24
06-24-2005, 10:17 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
FWIW, 6-10 were:

6. Columbus
7. Marx
8. Einstein
9. Copernicus
10. Galileo


I do agree that 1-4 affected the world in a way different than every other person who lived in that time period.

[/ QUOTE ]

5. and 6. in that list are huge mistakes.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not to mention #2

Blarg
06-24-2005, 10:19 PM
That would have ... to... be the man taught us all to... pause for seemingly no ... reason, William Shatner.

tbach24
06-24-2005, 10:20 PM
Also, since when is Canadia a country?

Last time I checked they went from England's child to America's adoption.

jason_t
06-24-2005, 10:20 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
FWIW, 6-10 were:

6. Columbus
7. Marx
8. Einstein
9. Copernicus
10. Galileo


I do agree that 1-4 affected the world in a way different than every other person who lived in that time period.

[/ QUOTE ]

5. and 6. in that list are huge mistakes.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not to mention #2

[/ QUOTE ]

Typo?

tbach24
06-24-2005, 10:22 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
FWIW, 6-10 were:

6. Columbus
7. Marx
8. Einstein
9. Copernicus
10. Galileo


I do agree that 1-4 affected the world in a way different than every other person who lived in that time period.

[/ QUOTE ]

5. and 6. in that list are huge mistakes.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not to mention #2

[/ QUOTE ]

Typo?

[/ QUOTE ]

Kinda, but to put Newton ahead of Jesus and Muhammad is a joke. So I guess 1-10 is all off. I just hate Newton. He made me do Physics.

Stuck
06-24-2005, 10:23 PM
Pamela Anderson, and its not even close.

jason_t
06-24-2005, 10:24 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
FWIW, 6-10 were:

6. Columbus
7. Marx
8. Einstein
9. Copernicus
10. Galileo


I do agree that 1-4 affected the world in a way different than every other person who lived in that time period.

[/ QUOTE ]

5. and 6. in that list are huge mistakes.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not to mention #2

[/ QUOTE ]

Typo?

[/ QUOTE ]

Kinda, but to put Newton ahead of Jesus and Muhammad is a joke. So I guess 1-10 is all off. I just hate Newton. He made me do Physics.

[/ QUOTE ]

You obviously have absolutely no understanding of the effect that Newton's work had on this world.

tbach24
06-24-2005, 10:26 PM
[ QUOTE ]
You obviously have absolutely no understanding of the effect that Newton's work had on this world.

[/ QUOTE ]

He made some Physics crap that (I hate) and is now outdated. Jesus and Muhammad have influenced billions of peoples, many of whom have killed people for them and done other things that Newton couldn't have done. There's no way that any scientist can have that influence.

You're right about me not knowing about Newton though.

jason_t
06-24-2005, 10:29 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You obviously have absolutely no understanding of the effect that Newton's work had on this world.

[/ QUOTE ]

He made some Physics crap that (I hate) and is now outdated. Jesus and Muhammad have influenced billions of peoples, many of whom have killed people for them and done other things that Newton couldn't have done. There's no way that any scientist can have that influence.

You're right about me not knowing about Newton though.

[/ QUOTE ]

Almost all of the modern world is not possible without his ideas in physics and discovery of the calculus. Period.

Dynasty
06-24-2005, 10:29 PM
[ QUOTE ]


From Wilipedia:

In general, the term Patient Zero refers to the central or initial patient in the population sample of an epidemiological investigation.

In particular, it refers to Gatan Dugas (February 1953 March 30, 1984), a Canadian airline steward who was Patient Zero for an early epidemiological study on HIV by the Centers for Disease Control. His sexual partners were surveyed for the disease in order to demonstrate that it was sexually transmitted. Several of them were among the first few hundred to be diagnosed with AIDS. Dugas eventually died not of AIDS or complications related to AIDS, but of renal failure.

Dugas was not the first AIDS case in North America, but he was the first case to start an epidemic


[/ QUOTE ]

Poor Gaetan. He'll never be remembered fondly.

But, I believe the medical community no longer believes Gaetan had any significant impact on the spread of AIDS. The cluster study which was made famous in And the Band Played On (I've only seen the movie and haven't read the book) is supposed to have its problems. Besides, blaming the spread of AIDS on one individual is considered too simplistic of an explantation.

scotty34
06-24-2005, 10:31 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You obviously have absolutely no understanding of the effect that Newton's work had on this world.

[/ QUOTE ]

He made some Physics crap that (I hate) and is now outdated. Jesus and Muhammad have influenced billions of peoples, many of whom have killed people for them and done other things that Newton couldn't have done. There's no way that any scientist can have that influence.

You're right about me not knowing about Newton though.

[/ QUOTE ]

Newton's work has definetly affected every person in this world. It is also not outdated, it has been expanded upon by Einstein, but Newton's theories are far more practical for use on Earth. Einstein's expansions help for going to the moon and calculating planetary orbits and other astronomical processes, but Newton's theories suffice for almost everything on Earth.

imported_CaseClosed326
06-24-2005, 10:32 PM
[ QUOTE ]

Religion teacher: Guttenberg or Luther

[/ QUOTE ]

I liked Police Academy too, but I think that's a bit much.

Benal
06-24-2005, 10:38 PM
No mention of Bell in this top 100?

Senor Cardgage
06-24-2005, 10:38 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Kinda, but to put Newton ahead of Jesus and Muhammad is a joke. So I guess 1-10 is all off. I just hate Newton. He made me do Physics.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
In 1999, A&E's biography team got together to come up with what they called a "Biography of the Millenium." In which they saught to determine the 100 most influential people of the time period 1000-1999.

[/ QUOTE ]

Blarg
06-24-2005, 10:43 PM
Taco Bell? That's not an actual person.

Benal
06-24-2005, 10:45 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Taco Bell? That's not an actual person.

[/ QUOTE ]

You know damn well who I mean /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

jakethebake
06-24-2005, 10:45 PM
there was one? /images/graemlins/confused.gif

CallMeIshmael
06-24-2005, 11:18 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You obviously have absolutely no understanding of the effect that Newton's work had on this world.

[/ QUOTE ]

He made some Physics crap that (I hate) and is now outdated. Jesus and Muhammad have influenced billions of peoples, many of whom have killed people for them and done other things that Newton couldn't have done. There's no way that any scientist can have that influence.

You're right about me not knowing about Newton though.

[/ QUOTE ]

Almost all of the modern world is not possible without his ideas in physics and discovery of the calculus. Period.

[/ QUOTE ]

As much as Newton was amazing, and his influence cant be ignored, the only 'correct' answer to Tbach's point is that the list only takes into account 1000-1999.


IF you were to consider all time, its Jesus/Muhammad 1/2 or 2/1 (which can be debated), and its not really even close.

Both of them absolutely destroy Newton in terms of influence.

CallMeIshmael
06-24-2005, 11:18 PM
[ QUOTE ]
No mention of Bell in this top 100?

[/ QUOTE ]

Im pretty sure he was. But, keep in mind, Bell was born in Scotland, and moved to Canada in his 20s, IIRC.

mblax10
06-24-2005, 11:36 PM
How has Neil Young's name not been mentioned yet? If you don't agree, go listen to Decade untill you do.

jason_t
06-24-2005, 11:36 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You obviously have absolutely no understanding of the effect that Newton's work had on this world.

[/ QUOTE ]

He made some Physics crap that (I hate) and is now outdated. Jesus and Muhammad have influenced billions of peoples, many of whom have killed people for them and done other things that Newton couldn't have done. There's no way that any scientist can have that influence.

You're right about me not knowing about Newton though.

[/ QUOTE ]

Almost all of the modern world is not possible without his ideas in physics and discovery of the calculus. Period.

[/ QUOTE ]

As much as Newton was amazing, and his influence cant be ignored, the only 'correct' answer to Tbach's point is that the list only takes into account 1000-1999.


IF you were to consider all time, its Jesus/Muhammad 1/2 or 2/1 (which can be debated), and its not really even close.

Both of them absolutely destroy Newton in terms of influence.

[/ QUOTE ]

My point is that Newton belongs in the top ten.

Jeff W
06-24-2005, 11:52 PM
[ QUOTE ]
1. Guttenberg
2. Newton
3. Luther
4. Darwin
5. Shakespeare
6. Columbus
7. Marx
8. Einstein
9. Copernicus
10. Galileo


[/ QUOTE ]

Italicized figures should drop off the list. Galileo Galilei is close and belongs at ~11.

Louis Pasteur, John Bardeen and James Maxwell need to be on the list.

Also, figures like Hitler and Stalin among others need to be considered because of the enormity of their influence, but I got caught up in the inventor/scientist angle of the original list. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

CallMeIshmael
06-25-2005, 12:00 AM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
1. Guttenberg
2. Newton
3. Luther
4. Darwin
5. Shakespeare
6. Columbus
7. Marx
8. Einstein
9. Copernicus
10. Galileo


[/ QUOTE ]

Italicized figures should drop off the list. Galileo Galilei is close and belongs at ~11.

Louis Pasteur, John Bardeen and James Maxwell need to be on the list.

Also, figures like Hitler and Stalin among others need to be considered because of the enormity of their influence, but I got caught up in the inventor/scientist angle of the original list. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Linky (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Number=2719060&page=0&view=c ollapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1) for you

gumpzilla
06-25-2005, 12:03 AM
[ QUOTE ]

Louis Pasteur

[/ QUOTE ]

Interesting choice, one I sort of thought of myself.

[ QUOTE ]
James Maxwell

[/ QUOTE ]

Not as sure, here.

[ QUOTE ]
John Bardeen

[/ QUOTE ]

Where are all of these Bardeen fetishists coming out of the woodwork from? I do think this is a stronger pick than Maxwell, though I'm not familiar enough with the history of the transistor to know how much credit he should be given over Shockley and Brattain.

HopeydaFish
06-25-2005, 12:08 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Kinda, but to put Newton ahead of Jesus and Muhammad is a joke. So I guess 1-10 is all off. I just hate Newton. He made me do Physics.

[/ QUOTE ]

First we get an American who started off this thread by claiming that a Canadian is responsible for the AIDS epidemic.

Next we get this guy who thinks that Jesus and Mohammed were born in the last thousand years.

Sigh.

Jeff W
06-25-2005, 12:09 AM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
James Maxwell

[/ QUOTE ]

Not as sure, here.

[/ QUOTE ]

He unified and mathematically formulated the theory of electromagnetism. I think he deserves a spot.

[ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
John Bardeen

[/ QUOTE ]

Where are all of these Bardeen fetishists coming out of the woodwork from? I do think this is a stronger pick than Maxwell, though I'm not familiar enough with the history of the transistor to know how much credit he should be given over Shockley and Brattain.

[/ QUOTE ]

Same could be said of Pasteur/Koch(development of bacteriology was collaborative). The transistor does number among the most important inventions in history so I had to give it representation.

CallMeIshmael
06-25-2005, 12:11 AM
[ QUOTE ]
First we get an American who started off this thread by claiming that a Canadian is responsible for the AIDS epidemic.

[/ QUOTE ]

Im going to guess that you arent a fact checker by trade.

HopeydaFish
06-25-2005, 12:12 AM
[ QUOTE ]
How has Neil Young's name not been mentioned yet? If you don't agree, go listen to Decade untill you do.

[/ QUOTE ]

So where do you think Neil Young fits in? Before or after Albert Einstein?

CallMeIshmael
06-25-2005, 12:13 AM
Pasteur, Frued and Adam Smith are people that I think are close.

Edison too.

gumpzilla
06-25-2005, 12:16 AM
[ QUOTE ]

He unified and mathematically formulated the theory of electromagnetism. I think he deserves a spot.


[/ QUOTE ]

Right, but how much influence does this hold? His main contribution was the notion of displacement current, if I understand correctly, and from there he was able to predict light waves. Obviously he's a tremendous physicist, but the immediate applications of this particular bit of knowledge to the world don't seem as high as the invention of the transistor. It would be a different story if Maxwell were responsible for the discovery of electromagnetic phenomena, period; that would be a much greater and more influential accomplishment. But ironing out the theoretical details of a field where much of the basic physics was understood, while important, isn't quite in the same ballpark as some of these other guys.

One can argue that Einstein's ideas are esoteric and not immediately applicable either, but of course the atomic bomb is the obvious child of relativity, and if that's not influential, I don't know what is.

HopeydaFish
06-25-2005, 12:17 AM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
First we get an American who started off this thread by claiming that a Canadian is responsible for the AIDS epidemic.

[/ QUOTE ]

Im going to guess that you arent a fact checker by trade.

[/ QUOTE ]

What? So your post was *not* meant to take a jab at Canada by claiming that a Canadian is responsible for the AIDS epidemic?

I quote:
[ QUOTE ]

In particular, it refers to Gatan Dugas (February 1953 March 30, 1984), a Canadian airline steward who was Patient Zero for an early epidemiological study on HIV by the Centers for Disease Control. His sexual partners were surveyed for the disease in order to demonstrate that it was sexually transmitted. Several of them were among the first few hundred to be diagnosed with AIDS. Dugas eventually died not of AIDS or complications related to AIDS, but of renal failure.

Dugas was not the first AIDS case in North America, but he was the first case to start an epidemic



And people say Canadians dont do anything important

[/ QUOTE ]

Jeff W
06-25-2005, 12:17 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Pasteur, Frued and Adam Smith are people that I think are close.

Edison too.

[/ QUOTE ]

Edison is contraversial. From wikipedia:

[ QUOTE ]
Most of these inventions were not completely original but improvements of earlier patents, and were actually made by his numerous employees. Edison was frequently criticized for not sharing the credits.

[/ QUOTE ]

What did Adam Smith do that significantly altered the course of history? It's not like he invented capitalism by writing a book.

Freud is dwarfed by others on the list.

gumpzilla
06-25-2005, 12:18 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Pasteur, Frued and Adam Smith are people that I think are close.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm sure we could come up with many more examples that aren't terribly obvious. Watt, Bessemer, Henry Ford, . . .

CallMeIshmael
06-25-2005, 12:19 AM
[ QUOTE ]
What? So your post was *not* meant to take a jab at Canada by claiming that a Canadian is responsible for the AIDS epidemic?

[/ QUOTE ]

I was born in Edmonton, Alberta and raised right near Niagara Falls, Ontario.

CallMeIshmael
06-25-2005, 12:26 AM
[ QUOTE ]
What did Adam Smith do that significantly altered the course of history? It's not like he invented capitalism by writing a book.

[/ QUOTE ]

True. It was more an explanation than an invention.

But, his work monumentally important in economics. He is the king of that field. And, fwiw, Smith was also very influential on the workings of marx.

[ QUOTE ]
Freud is dwarfed by others on the list.

[/ QUOTE ]

I dont know about that. He essentially IS an entire field of study.

Blarg
06-25-2005, 12:27 AM
Once you start adding world conquerors, which perhaps you should, you have to think about adding guys like Alexander, Caesar, and Gengish and Kublai Khan, too. Often we think of Hitler and Stalin partly in reference to the huge numbers they killed or space of territory they influenced, but forget that considering the numbers and population spread of the ancient world, there were guys comparable to these nasties previously. Genghis Khan, for instance, is said to have murdered 6 million Chinese in six months...and that's when there were only about 60 million Chinese. And you had to do it by hand, and go from place to place on horseback or on foot to do it.

CallMeIshmael
06-25-2005, 12:28 AM
Kahn is almost certainly in the top 30 or so, and maybe even the top 20.

Cant include Caeson/Alexander, as it is only 1000-1999.

HopeydaFish
06-25-2005, 12:29 AM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What? So your post was *not* meant to take a jab at Canada by claiming that a Canadian is responsible for the AIDS epidemic?

[/ QUOTE ]

I was born in Edmonton, Alberta and raised right near Niagara Falls, Ontario.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry, my mistake. I missed the self-effacing humour in your post. I've been reading so many moronic comments aimed at Canadians (and a similar number aimed at Americans), that I naturally assumed that this was yet another one of that nature.

Blarg
06-25-2005, 12:30 AM
Ford would really be stretching it. He wasn't the only guy working on cars or on internal combustion engines.

James Watt could be up there. He was needed for the entire industrial revolution, and without the steam engine, Ford might not ever have come about.

CallMeIshmael
06-25-2005, 12:33 AM
[ QUOTE ]
humour

[/ QUOTE ]

You must also be Canadian. (or, at least not American)

no prob, btw.

Blarg
06-25-2005, 12:34 AM
Oh yeah, forgot about the time restriction.

gumpzilla
06-25-2005, 12:35 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Ford would really be stretching it. He wasn't the only guy working on cars or on internal combustion engines.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was thinking more for institution of the assembly line. Some quick Googling suggests Whitney might be a better name to associate with that, but Ford is certainly another prominent one.

Blarg
06-25-2005, 12:39 AM
Colt started the assembly line in earnest, much earlier. His standardizing helped him win Army gun contracts around the time of the civil war, if I'm recalling correctly, and helped lead to his revolvers being the shizzle, since you didn't have to constantly get every repaired spring or cylinder or whatever individually fitted, etc.

tbach24
06-25-2005, 12:40 AM
FRANKLIN!!!!

Blarg
06-25-2005, 12:43 AM
We were just talking about how big and revolutionary the lightning rod was here in OOT the other day. Apparently houses used to burn down, and whole sections of cities get laid to waste, even ships sunk, pretty frequently before he came along with the lightning rod.

Apathy
06-25-2005, 12:58 AM
Screw all you jealous Canadian haters, and the answer to the thread topic is tommy douglas, Learn about him here (http://www.cbc.ca/greatest/top_ten/nominee/douglas-tommy.html)

He is largely responsible for starting med-care (one of the many reasons why Canada is so much of a better place to live then the US).


-Apathy

MEbenhoe
06-25-2005, 12:58 AM
[ QUOTE ]
1. Guttenberg
2. Newton
3. Luther
4. Darwin
5. Shakespeare
6. Columbus
7. Marx
8. Einstein
9. Copernicus
10. Galileo


[/ QUOTE ]

Preface this that I used to be a history major so my bias may reflect it.

My top 10
1. Guttenberg
2. Newton
3. Pasteur
4. Luther
5. Columbus
6. Einstein
7. Voltaire
8. Marx
9. Copernicus
10. Galileo

people like shakespeare and darwin's overall influence on mankind is overrated IMO. On the other hand I'm curious where Pasteur and Voltaire were rated on this list. Two people who had an amazing amount of influence on where the world is today in very different ways that often go unnoticed by the general public.

gumpzilla
06-25-2005, 01:00 AM
[ QUOTE ]
On the other hand I'm curious where Pasteur and Voltaire were rated on this list.

[/ QUOTE ]

Voltaire?

Voltaire?????

You've got me. What did he do that was so [censored] hot compared to his contemporaries that puts him in the top 10?

tbach24
06-25-2005, 01:00 AM
[ QUOTE ]
We were just talking about how big and revolutionary the lightning rod was here in OOT the other day. Apparently houses used to burn down, and whole sections of cities get laid to waste, even ships sunk, pretty frequently before he came along with the lightning rod.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not to mention the Farmer's Almanac, libraries, bifocals, electricity and a whole slew of other things.

CallMeIshmael
06-25-2005, 01:04 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Screw all you jealous Canadian haters, and the answer to the thread topic is tommy douglas, Learn about him here (http://www.cbc.ca/greatest/top_ten/nominee/douglas-tommy.html)

He is largely responsible for starting med-care (one of the many reasons why Canada is so much of a better place to live then the US).

[/ QUOTE ]

Keep in mind that:

A) I am in fact Canadian
B) It is overall influence, not just on Canada.

MEbenhoe
06-25-2005, 01:07 AM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
On the other hand I'm curious where Pasteur and Voltaire were rated on this list.

[/ QUOTE ]

Voltaire?

Voltaire?????

You've got me. What did he do that was so [censored] hot compared to his contemporaries that puts him in the top 10?

[/ QUOTE ]

Voltaire = figurehead of Enlightenment

Enlightment and the works of the enlightment provided a huge spark for the american revolution, french revolution and democracy as a whole. His revolution actually worked, Marx's didn't. I suppose it would have been more accurate to list the all the authors of the enlightment as a group, but forced to choose a single person I went with Voltaire.

CallMeIshmael
06-25-2005, 01:07 AM
[ QUOTE ]
darwin's overall influence on mankind is overrated IMO.

[/ QUOTE ]

I assure you that, as a biology major, Darwin's influence on biology is so astonomical that he pretty much has to be on the list.

There isnt a whole lot in bio that doesnt, in some way, relate back to darwin.

Of course, if you say "wallace would have done it anyway", then I can see where your're going.


EDIT: also, keep in mind, that there arent many people more responsible for the current state of religion than Darwin.

The Stranger
06-25-2005, 01:14 AM
[ QUOTE ]
(Guttenberg.)

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow, what a compliment. How did I make this list? I don't remember doing anything all that important.

If you mean Johann, it is spelled Gutenberg.

Guttenberg is Steve, or my family.

My family was actually one 't,' until one of my ancestors moved to the US in 1880 or so and changed it to two. He hoped it would help Americans to pronounce the name correctly. I still get 95% of the telemarketers asking for "Mister Gut - en - berg," instead of "Gute - en - berg."

Jeff W
06-25-2005, 01:19 AM
You're minimizing Maxwell's importance. His unified theory of electromagnetism is critical to all of the physics and electrical engineering that came afterward.

HopeydaFish
06-25-2005, 01:20 AM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
humour

[/ QUOTE ]

You must also be Canadian. (or, at least not American)

no prob, btw.

[/ QUOTE ]

Guilty as charged.

gumpzilla
06-25-2005, 01:28 AM
[ QUOTE ]
You're minimizing Maxwell's importance. His unified theory of electromagnetism is critical to all of the physics and electrical engineering that came afterward.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sure, but I think the bulk of the physics of electromagnetism had already been pretty much hammered out. Besides, I don't think this argument about what gets built on what is necessarily the strongest one. After all, get rid of Coulomb and Ampere(*) and Maxwell doesn't have anything to work with, but I don't think that we can seriously claim that Coulomb and Ampere are among the top 10 most influential people of the past millennium.

(*) or whoever we should really associate with the laws named after these guys.

Jeff W
06-25-2005, 01:34 AM
We may have to agree to disagree, but you should read what Einstein has to say on Maxwell's contributions and see if he can do a better job convincing you than I can /images/graemlins/tongue.gif :

Einstein on Maxwell (http://www.mountainman.com.au/aether_2.html)

masse75
06-25-2005, 01:44 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Also, since when is Canadia a country?

Last time I checked they went from England's child to America's annoying next door neighbor.

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP. I live in Buffalo.

CallMeIshmael
06-25-2005, 12:02 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I live in Buffalo.

[/ QUOTE ]

IF...

I lost a bet... or someone held a gun to my head... or I was double dared...

And lived in the wet fart of a city that is Buffalo, NY...

I wouldnt proclaim so on the internet.

jakethebake
06-25-2005, 12:07 PM
I for one am grateful to the Canadians. If it weren't such a godawful place, a bunch of them wouldn't have moved south, and we wouldn't have Cajun food and Zydeco today.

Skipbidder
06-25-2005, 01:10 PM
[ QUOTE ]
and we wouldn't have Cajun food and Zydeco today.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this one comes out as no net gain.

2+2 wannabe
06-25-2005, 01:11 PM
the most influential Canadian (most impact on the world) is one Dr. Frederick Banting, the creator of insulin.

jakethebake
06-25-2005, 01:12 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
and we wouldn't have Cajun food and Zydeco today.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this one comes out as no net gain.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're clearly insane.

man
06-25-2005, 01:17 PM
I don't know how A&E defines "influential," but it seems that shakespeare has had a profound influence on the interpretation of the human condition... and after all isn't the fundamental question the meaning of life? isn't everything else is secondary? (camus said that.) I mean I'm not a scholar or anything.. the last time I read shakespeare was in high school.. but I think he's definately top 10 material.

thoughts?

(sorry if this has been said, I skipped the last 2/3 of posts.)

CallMeIshmael
06-25-2005, 01:37 PM
[ QUOTE ]
thoughts?

[/ QUOTE ]

I completely agree. But, fwiw, I also feel that in a group of people who were selected for their interest in poker (and, you can infer from this more likely to me a math person than an arts person, if you allow me to use vague descriptions here) you are likely going to be met some friction.

Shakespeare was a philosopher first. He just worked in the form of the play (or poem). There wasnt someone who lived (assuming he did live) over the past 1000 years who better understood what it meant to be human. He had an uncanny ability get into the mind of a human, and see the world (specifically what they would think) through their eyes. He was, in this respect, also a great psychologist.

Also, you cant discount his impact on the English language: no one can be credited with more 'coinage' when it comes to names/words over the past 1000 years.


Also... linky (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Number=2719060&page=0&view=c ollapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1)

CallMeIshmael
06-25-2005, 01:38 PM
[ QUOTE ]
the most influential Canadian (most impact on the world) is one Dr. Frederick Banting, the creator of insulin.

[/ QUOTE ]

Assuming the Dugas theory is, in fact, bunk (and it seems very likely that it is), this is probably the best answer I could think of as well.

man
06-25-2005, 02:05 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
thoughts?

[/ QUOTE ]

I completely agree. But, fwiw, I also feel that in a group of people who were selected for their interest in poker (and, you can infer from this more likely to me a math person than an arts person, if you allow me to use vague descriptions here) you are likely going to be met some friction.

Shakespeare was a philosopher first. He just worked in the form of the play (or poem). There wasnt someone who lived (assuming he did live) over the past 1000 years who better understood what it meant to be human. He had an uncanny ability get into the mind of a human, and see the world (specifically what they would think) through their eyes. He was, in this respect, also a great psychologist.

Also, you cant discount his impact on the English language: no one can be credited with more 'coinage' when it comes to names/words over the past 1000 years.


Also... linky (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Number=2719060&page=0&view=c ollapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1)

[/ QUOTE ]
that's exactly what I'm talking about, but I don't think I could have worded it nearly as well. it seems that to most people, scientific advancement is the point of human existence... and while that's important, I think that the discovery of humanity's identity is the ultimate goal. shakespeare's understanding of the human condition was truly amazing.

jakethebake
06-25-2005, 02:09 PM
What about this guy...?

http://www.spookshop.com/images/rudolph/humble_bumble.jpg

CallMeIshmael
06-25-2005, 02:12 PM
[ QUOTE ]
What about this guy...?

http://www.spookshop.com/images/rudolph/humble_bumble.jpg

[/ QUOTE ]

HAHAHAHA... VNH

mason55
06-25-2005, 02:19 PM
Bumbles bounces!

Blarg
06-25-2005, 04:08 PM
[ QUOTE ]
What about this guy...?

http://www.spookshop.com/images/rudolph/humble_bumble.jpg

[/ QUOTE ]

Heheh that is too cool. I want one of those on my monitor!

Gamblor
06-25-2005, 04:11 PM
Dugas eventually died not of AIDS or complications related to AIDS, but of renal failure.

This might be the worst way to die.

Blarg
06-25-2005, 04:14 PM
Does your kidney explode, or does your blood fill up with uric acid or poisons and cause joint pain or nausea unto death? What specifically about it would make it worse than so many other ways?

RicktheRuler
06-25-2005, 04:37 PM
Pam Anderson. Yes, Im kinda serious.

Eurotrash
06-25-2005, 05:33 PM
edit: this is difficult, I can't even think of one.

SinCityGuy
06-25-2005, 06:34 PM
William Shatner. Who could ever forget his haunting interpretation of "Rocketman" (http://ifilm.wmod.llnwd.net/a65/o1/portal/2654003_200.asf)?

teamdonkey
06-25-2005, 06:45 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I assure you that, as a biology major, Darwin's influence on biology is so astonomical that he pretty much has to be on the list.

There isnt a whole lot in bio that doesnt, in some way, relate back to darwin.

[/ QUOTE ]

this is crap.

how has noone mentioned these guys? post 1999 maybe?

http://img130.exs.cx/img130/5977/tf4qt.jpg

CallMeIshmael
06-25-2005, 06:56 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I assure you that, as a biology major, Darwin's influence on biology is so astonomical that he pretty much has to be on the list.

There isnt a whole lot in bio that doesnt, in some way, relate back to darwin.

[/ QUOTE ]

this is crap.

how has noone mentioned these guys? post 1999 maybe?

http://img130.exs.cx/img130/5977/tf4qt.jpg

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you saying what you quoted was crap? Or its crap that T&P havent been mentioned (which they have)

Gamblor
06-25-2005, 07:22 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Does your kidney explode, or does your blood fill up with uric acid or poisons and cause joint pain or nausea unto death? What specifically about it would make it worse than so many other ways?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm just imagining my kidneys exploding and feeling my body fill up with toxins, knowing its only a matter of time before my body slowly fills with poison.

imported_CaseClosed326
06-25-2005, 07:24 PM
I am starting to cry I am laughing so hard.

teamdonkey
06-25-2005, 07:28 PM
i'm saying what i quoted was crap.

HopeydaFish
06-25-2005, 07:43 PM
[ QUOTE ]
William Shatner. Who could ever forget his haunting interpretation of "Rocketman" (http://ifilm.wmod.llnwd.net/a65/o1/portal/2654003_200.asf)?

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL...thanks, I'd been looking for this ever since I saw Stuey do Rocketman on Family Guy. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

It was even worse than I dared imagine.

Blarg
06-25-2005, 07:49 PM
I always thought having one of those disease conditions where you couldn't breathe would be one of the worst. I remember reading about one where you had to keep getting crusts of mucus mechanically extracted from your lungs before you would suffocate, but eventually it just got so bad you suffocated anyway. Panicking and gasping for being barely able to breathe over and over again -- ugh. No way to live.

Blarg
06-25-2005, 07:52 PM
Damn, that's good stuff! It just keeps getting better and better.

CallMeIshmael
06-25-2005, 07:58 PM
[ QUOTE ]
i'm saying what i quoted was crap.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're going to have to exlain yourself further, if you think the statement that Darwin had the most influece on biology (or almost all of bio relates back to him) is 'crap'.

I'll go as far to say that that is retarded.


EDIT: Nevermind. You're the "First, Mammalian digestive tracts really aren't that different" guy.

teamdonkey
06-25-2005, 08:10 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i'm saying what i quoted was crap.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're going to have to exlain yourself further, if you think the statement that Darwin had the most influece on biology (or almost all of bio relates back to him) is 'crap'.

I'll go as far to say that that is retarded.


EDIT: Nevermind. You're the "First, Mammalian digestive tracts really aren't that different, nor are the bacteria living in them" guy.

[/ QUOTE ]

i have a BS in biology, BA in chemistry, and a masters in biomedical sciences doing cancer research. My undergraduate thesis was on the "theory of evolution" so it's not exactly an area where i'm ignorant. I can't offhand think of a single instance where i thought, "damn, where would we be without Darwin right now?". When you make a statement like yours, the burden of proof is on you to back it up. Feel free.

CallMeIshmael
06-25-2005, 08:19 PM
[ QUOTE ]
i have a BS in biology, BA in chemistry, and a masters in biomedical sciences doing cancer research. My undergraduate thesis was on the "theory of evolution" so it's not exactly an area where i'm ignorant.

[/ QUOTE ]

IF this is the case, then how is it that you think that humans, bats, cows, dolphins, chimps, kangaroos, bears and anteaters digestive tracks that arent that different?

[ QUOTE ]
I can't offhand think of a single instance where i thought, "damn, where would we be without Darwin right now?".

[/ QUOTE ]

Is this a "Wallace would have done it anyway" argument or a "natural selection isnt that important" argument?

lu_hawk
06-25-2005, 08:21 PM
The cast of Kids in the Hall.

teamdonkey
06-25-2005, 08:31 PM
[ QUOTE ]
IF this is the case, then how is it that you think that humans, bats, cows, dolphins, chimps, kangaroos, bears and anteaters digestive tracks that arent that different?

[/ QUOTE ]

physiologically they aren't that different. reffering back to that thread, it's not like something that is deadly poison to one mammal goes through just fine in another.

[ QUOTE ]
Is this a "Wallace would have done it anyway" argument or a "natural selection isnt that important" argument?

[/ QUOTE ]

it's neither. I could argue with you about Darwin all day, but either way i don't feel his work has "astronomically" affected every aspect of biology. You're either overestimating the impact of his work, or ignoring large portions of the field of biology.

CallMeIshmael
06-25-2005, 08:46 PM
[ QUOTE ]
it's not like something that is deadly poison to one mammal goes through just fine in another.

[/ QUOTE ]

theobromine:

Kills dogs a dose of 100-150mg/KG of weight.

People: doesnt

[ QUOTE ]
You're either overestimating the impact of his work, or ignoring large portions of the field of biology.

[/ QUOTE ]

I feel you are not seeing the forrest from the trees here (sorry to drop such a cliche).

Though Darwin's work might now directly help, say, a surgeon (medicine being one of the better examples of a field not overly affected by CD) it doesnt mean that his theories havent changed our understanding of that which the surgeon is working on.

You cant fully understand any organism without understanding its evolutionary history.

teamdonkey
06-25-2005, 09:16 PM
[ QUOTE ]
theobromine:

Kills dogs a dose of 100-150mg/KG of weight.

People: doesnt

[/ QUOTE ]

entirely dose dependant. Humans metabolize theobromine faster and thus can consume a much larger quantity without adverse affects. Get enough theobromine in a human and they'll die to. Alcohol in your bloodstream at a certain percentage will kill you, but that doesn't mean it's poisonous to humans.

For what it's worth i think Darwin's biggest contribution isn't his actual work, but rather one of the effects it had. By providing a rational explanation for the origin of life on earth the last remnants of Religion were driven from scientific fields. This was an important thing. However i don't think it makes him one of the top 5 most influential people of the past 1000 years.

CallMeIshmael
06-25-2005, 09:37 PM
[ QUOTE ]
entirely dose dependant. Humans metabolize theobromine faster and thus can consume a much larger quantity without adverse affects. Get enough theobromine in a human and they'll die to. Alcohol in your bloodstream at a certain percentage will kill you, but that doesn't mean it's poisonous to humans.

[/ QUOTE ]

Though there is a technical difference between the overdose and actual poisoning, within the context of that other thread, they're pretty much the same thing.

What I mean by that, is: just because the poop doesnt kill a dog, doesnt mean that it isnt just eating it in a small enough dose such that it is below the death threshhold. But, the human death threshhold could be much lower. (essentially the reverse of the theobromine).

FWIW, Im not saying that you're wrong on the poop. I dont know, and will defer to you, as that is far from my area of study.

[ QUOTE ]
For what it's worth i think Darwin's biggest contribution isn't his actual work, but rather one of the effects it had. By providing a rational explanation for the origin of life on earth the last remnants of Religion were driven from scientific fields. This was an important thing. However i don't think it makes him one of the top 5 most influential people of the past 1000 years.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree that is affect on religion is huge. But, I have to be honest and say I am amazed to meet a biologist who doesnt consider Darwin of momunmental importance.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

mostsmooth
06-25-2005, 09:37 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Alex Trebek

[/ QUOTE ]
if you would have said"who is alex trebek?", you would have won potw

teamdonkey
06-25-2005, 09:43 PM
[ QUOTE ]
FWIW, Im not saying that you're wrong on the poop. I dont know, and will defer to you, as that is far from my area of study.

[/ QUOTE ]

allright then, as we agree i am the poop master

CallMeIshmael
06-25-2005, 09:45 PM
[ QUOTE ]
allright then, as we agree i am the poop master

[/ QUOTE ]

HAHHAAH


(though, just to be clear: that isnt what I meant)

Blarg
06-25-2005, 10:15 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
theobromine:

Kills dogs a dose of 100-150mg/KG of weight.

People: doesnt

[/ QUOTE ]

entirely dose dependant. Humans metabolize theobromine faster and thus can consume a much larger quantity without adverse affects. Get enough theobromine in a human and they'll die to. Alcohol in your bloodstream at a certain percentage will kill you, but that doesn't mean it's poisonous to humans.

For what it's worth i think Darwin's biggest contribution isn't his actual work, but rather one of the effects it had. By providing a rational explanation for the origin of life on earth the last remnants of Religion were driven from scientific fields. This was an important thing. However i don't think it makes him one of the top 5 most influential people of the past 1000 years.

[/ QUOTE ]

Separating religion from science might be the biggest leap in the history of humanity.

Not that it has been completely accomplished yet in the popular mind.

jakethebake
06-26-2005, 12:04 AM
What about these guys, eh, you hosers?


http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/PEPH/SB1B1.jpg