View Full Version : blind defense

05-20-2005, 04:55 PM
Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t300 (5 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

UTG (t420)
MP (t2475)
Button (t2440)
SB (t1855)
Hero (t2810)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 9/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB raises to t1855 (All-In)</font>

reads (because this would be an obvious fold without them)
1. SB is a good player which has two implication: he pushes frequently and has (probably) noticed me playing tight
2. He has stolen my blind 3 times already

do you call when you know that the SB is pushing a wide range of hands?

05-20-2005, 04:57 PM
I had a similar situation last night. Except I had much better pot odds to call, and a slightly lower kicker. The general consensus (two people voted in my poll. asses would rather talk about raptor's new book) was that my hand was not strong enough to call. I thought mine was close, but I don't think yours is. I fold without much thought.

The Yugoslavian
05-20-2005, 05:02 PM
I fold without much thought.

[/ QUOTE ]

Unless the ass in the SB is raptor...then I'm spite calling him with any two, /images/graemlins/cool.gif.


05-20-2005, 05:03 PM
No I don't beleive you can call here even if you know they are crazy. I'm pretty sure it's -EV to call even if you know they are pushing any 2 here.

05-20-2005, 05:05 PM
I did a quick calculation before i posted this and its -.2% on 22+,A2+,K2+,Q2+,J2+

05-20-2005, 05:07 PM
Oh I'm sorry you will have 1k left if you lose....I thought you both had about the same number of chips...btw your opponent should move allin with any 2 here against you.

05-20-2005, 05:11 PM
If your opponent had 2810, and someone else had like 1400, you would be losing huge EV by calling against any 2. Once the SB has about 2400-2450, you are slightly +EV calling against any 2. With the SB having 1800, you are huge +EV by calling if they are pushing with any 2

If you really feel the SB is pushing any 2 you should call, as its a ton of +EV. If they really are good, they should be paying attention and understanding you are tight, and thus pushing any 2 here. Of course when you suspect someone is doing this you can be brave and make calls like this with Q9s, although I admit it's very hard and can't remember the last I've done it in a similar situation.

If you play with this person a lot and plan to call, you should make a huge speech about how you won't fold to their raises anymore, and then call...maybe then you can gain future equity as well.

The Yugoslavian
05-20-2005, 05:14 PM

Oh I'm sorry you will have 1k left if you lose....I thought you both had about the same number of chips...btw your opponent should move allin with any 2 here against you.

[/ QUOTE ]

How many of your opponents do you give 'pushign any two' credit to here?

I'm folding this .... although if it's a known 2+2er who will push any two here I'm liable to call (I'd imagine even good players have a hard time pushing the bottom 20% of hands here in the SB though). Even though the villian has stolen several times and seems capable of pushing a fairly large range here....I think it has to be pretty close to 'any two' to give you an edge big enough to warrant calling...

How often would you guesstimate you'd call in this spot curtains? Against any known good player? Vs. a player who has open pushed from the SB the last three opportunities? Never?


05-20-2005, 11:38 PM
I called, and a small factor in that decision was actually to see what he had. He flipped over K2o, which lets me know that hes pushing a lot as I expected but doesn't tell me if he would be pushing worse like I assumed. I lost the coinflip, but the next hand doubled up with 88. An interesting thing happened after that though where after raising my blind constantly before this he only raised me once for the rest of the game. After that when it folded to him he folded his SB and I got free chips. Once the blind got rose getting 600 free chips every time was a very big deal, and I'm certain that he would have been constantly hammering me if I had folded the Q9. I still don't know if it was the right call, but if the hand range that I posted above was true with a -.2% call I'm gladly making this call in the future to prevent my blind from getting stolen every hand.

05-21-2005, 12:25 AM
K2o is a brainless push btw even if he knows you have relatively looser standards than most.

05-21-2005, 05:48 AM
Sometimes you have to push back with any two late game to show them who is boss. I find it funny that when I push often the SB folds alot. I assume they are afraid that if they limp I'll push (which is true most of the time).

05-21-2005, 05:58 AM

K2o is a brainless push btw even if he knows you have relatively looser standards than most.

[/ QUOTE ]

lol, not against this guys calling standards

***** Hand History for Game 2081891837 *****
300/600 TourneyTexasHTGameTable (NL) (Tournament 12395496) - Sat May 21 05:21:59 EDT 2005
Table Table 11094 (Real Money) -- Seat 7 is the button
Total number of players : 4
Seat 4: vavy16 (1400)
Seat 7: NewtBuggs (1700)
Seat 9: Budlight207u (1465)
Seat 10: european111 (5435)
Budlight207u posts small blind (150)
european111 posts big blind (300)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to NewtBuggs [ Ks, 2h ]
vavy16 folds.
NewtBuggs raises (1700) to 1700
NewtBuggs is all-In.
Budlight207u folds.
european111 calls (1400)
Creating Main Pot with $3550 with NewtBuggs
** Dealing Flop ** : [ As, 4d, 3h ]
** Dealing Turn ** : [ 3s ]
** Dealing River ** : [ 2s ]
** Summary **
Main Pot: 3550 |
Board: [ As 4d 3h 3s 2s ]
vavy16 balance 1400, didn't bet (folded)
NewtBuggs balance 0, lost 1700 [ Ks 2h ] [ two pairs, threes and twos -- As,3h,3s,2h,2s ]
Budlight207u balance 1315, lost 150 (folded)
european111 balance 7285, bet 1700, collected 3550, net +1850 [ 6c 5c ] [ a straight, two to six -- 6c,5c,4d,3h,2s ]

I'm a very calm person and this made me want to hurt someone/something

anyway, back to the original hand: I of course I knew that he would be pushing K2o, but it did help to see it and know that i'm not completely incompetant in my reads

05-21-2005, 06:07 AM
I hear ya, It's clear there are plenty of players who would fold K2 there

05-21-2005, 06:10 AM
In this spot, a good player is going to be pushing any two against you. Eastbay's magic prog says that against this type of range, it's +1.7% to call with Q9s.

Standard disclaimer: Been drinking a good bit tonight. /images/graemlins/smile.gif