View Full Version : Question regarding outs

10-28-2002, 11:49 PM
When calcualting outs for a hand, should I take into account the amount of people at the table? Let's say after the flop I believe I have 8 outs for a hand. Playing 1on1, only 8 cards of 52 have been used at this point. However, at a table with 11 players, 26 cards have been used at this point. It seems that since 1/2 the deck has been already been used, that my 8 outs are probably now around 4. Is there a general rule of thumb for this? Should it be calculated like a blackjack card counter who must always keep a count based on the % of shoe played?

Ray Zee
10-29-2002, 01:17 AM
unseen cards are just unseen. its all the same. so forget about what has been folded that you havent seen. the big however is when you are in a hand with more than one person. then after reading what you think they have, then you count up your outs. those are unseen cards that arent totally unknown,
in bj they keep a count based on whats left but on what they have seen. its the same in bj if they dealt the hand from a full deck or cut the deck in half and put one half in the tray and dealt off the other half thats left. unseen cards are just that. did i explain this okay.

10-30-2002, 10:06 AM
The number of people in a hand don't have a direct effect on how likely your outs are to be available. If you have 8 outs to a straight draw, and replay a scenario hand 1 million times, you will make your straight about 1/3 of the time, regardless of how many people were in the hand.

However, it is certainly smart to try to deduct whether or not your outs are actually available based on what hands other people are likely to have. For example if someone raised before the flop in Texas Holdem, it is likely they have an ace in their hand. Therefore, if you need an ace to make your straight, it is likely you have 1 less out than the odds state you would.

Do you see the difference between concluding that some of your outs might not be in the deck based on hand reading compared to just assuming that they might not based on the number of people in the hand?