View Full Version : Which is more valuable, A6o or A3o

bad beetz
09-16-2002, 06:12 PM
Which has a higher EV in a loose-passive holdem game with 5 total in the hand, assuming you get a free play in the big blind.

A6o or
A3o with it's lower kicker but added wheel possiblity

09-16-2002, 06:30 PM
It's very close. So, close that I don't think finding the precise answer will have any practical benefit. Since they're passive, A3o may be able to squeeze out an edge since they won't bet the flop unless they hit. You may get a free card which allows you to improve on the turn. However, I think A6o is slightly better.

A5o is definately a better hand than A6o.

Mike Haven
09-16-2002, 06:58 PM
A6o wins 21% of hands if all five are played out (2.7% of all its hands are straights)

A3o wins 20% of hands (3.6% of all its hands are straights)

bad beetz
09-16-2002, 07:40 PM
excellent, thank you.

09-16-2002, 10:43 PM
I don't think simulation results give you the answer you're looking for.

09-17-2002, 03:40 AM
Dealing hot-and-cold against random hands is not the same as actual play against real people.

I do know that in a pot- or no-limit game with players' stacks large compared to the blinds, I'm often tempted to play a hand like A3o for cheap, while I wouldn't touch A6o with a ten-foot pole.

If you've gotten a free play in the blind in a limit game against typical players, A6o is only slightly less likely to be outkicked holdings than A3o. A3o's straight possibilities are substantially stronger than A6o's. If my ace is the only one out there, then my kicker doesn't matter. If my kicker matters at all, then I expect both hands to be drawing to three outs and therefore in essentially identical trouble. Therefore the straight-making consideration becomes the most important for choosing between the two.

bad beetz
09-17-2002, 01:19 PM
good point. I'm guessing if I'm playing either of these hands then I got a free play and no one else did, so the kicker's probably irrelevent. the wheel consideration outweighs the simulated kicker strength in the real world. All in all, it probably won't matter in the long run.


09-17-2002, 03:49 PM
Playing heads up, your 6 has just as good as good a shot as pairing his 3. So I would rather have A6 over A 3. The chances of getting a straight do not overcome the added value of having a better pair. /forums/images/icons/grin.gif

09-17-2002, 05:23 PM
The question isn't about a heads-up situation; it's about a "loose-passive holdem game with 5 total in the hand, assuming you get a free play in the big blind."

Mason Malmuth
09-17-2002, 05:26 PM
This is an idea that old timers use to claim because they confused pot limit and no limit with limit. In limit, the higher kicker is generally better. That's because being able to win an extra pot every now and then is more important than being able to win a large pot on a rare occasion. An exception might be A5 versus A6.


09-18-2002, 03:46 PM
If you want an exact answer to the question it's this: They both have the same value. You are getting a free ride to see the flop. So the value of both hands compared to the loss at this point is infinte. /forums/images/icons/laugh.gif