View Full Version : Butchering Top Set???

USS Gut Shot
12-13-2004, 01:18 AM
I am dealt QhQc6c3c second to act in a 5/10 pot limit game.
The UTG limps for $10 so I call behind him. One more player calls behind me and the SB completes his blind, so five players take the flop.

The flop is Qd Th 4s
It is checked to me so I check hoping the last player will bet.

Turn Qd Th 4s 3s
The blinds check to UTG who bets $47.
I raise $142, only the UTG calls.

River Qd Th 4s 3s 9h
It is checked to me. I bet $427 and win the pot.

1. Is it correct to call before the flop with 6 players yet to act?
2. I would normally bet the flop with only one player to act, but like to mix it up a little.
3. I put him on a flush draw and/or two pair. Is betting the pot correct here? In hindsight I feel I should have bet around $200-250.

I won the pot and possibly won more by slowplaying. But I wonder if I misplayed the hand on 3 out of 4 betting rounds.

12-13-2004, 02:56 AM
You should have bet the pot on the flop. with the Q-T someone could have been on a straight draw---by giving him a free card he could have beat you. by betting the pot--he is getting 2-1 pot odds on his call where its a little less than 5-1 to get the straight. In the long run he will be making a mistake calling.

12-13-2004, 03:29 AM
I don't know if the 5/10 game is much different from the games that I play, but I really dont like limping such a weak hand from such an early position.

From my findings, queens by themselves are not a strong enough hand to limp in omaha, especially in EP. If your surrounding cards were a bit better I don't have any problem with the preflop call. Your hand seems unplayable unless you hit a set, (even that is not necessarily a lock) and then when you do hit your set, you give everyone a free card. (Perhaps you had a read on the player behind you and had noticed he was betting every pot when checked to?)

I don't really like the river bet due to the fact that you seem to commit yourself to the pot when it is unlikely you will get a call from such a large bet unless you are beat. (If you are beat here I would expect a check-raise.)

12-13-2004, 05:27 PM
i'm not really an omaha player, but i can't imagine it's a good idea to limp in EP with QQxx where the xx is pretty bad.

and kipin, i love the animation.

12-20-2004, 11:59 PM
I think the limp is fine depending on the nature of the game, you should definatly bet the pot on the flop, there are about a billion scare cards that could hit ( any 8 to ace could easily take away your nuts ). Check raising here is weak as i think most people dont bet without something REALLY good in a pot with so many players so you are unlikely to get any action without someone holding tt who will pretty much be calling you anyways, you want to bet on the flop so you can build a pot to take it away from them on the turn / possibly get reraised by mr ambitious with his worse set and shut out the guy with the straight draw. Thats my read on it anyways.

12-21-2004, 04:21 PM
In Pot limit and No Limit Poker, Stewart Reuben's quiz for PLO has a question that answers your dilemma. When you flop top set with a somewhat ragged board like that (unless someone has a monster wrap draw) you're going to have to create your own action. Betting the flop is necessary, especially if it will give someone a free card that can beat you, which it could have. As for playing QQ up front, it all depends on the texture of the game. If you didn't fear a pre-flop raise because your opponents are very passive, I see no reason to limp with a hand that turns top set. You were looking for a specific flop for the bare minimum and you hit it.

Cleveland Guy
12-21-2004, 04:46 PM
Is this the same Jofer that plays on Pokerroom?