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View Full Version : Sandy Murphy acquitted of Ted Binion murder


ChicagoTroy
11-23-2004, 05:45 PM
For those who've read Positively Fifth Street, you'll know the background:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6568016/

(Don't know if this has been already posted, no search results.)

mojorisin24
11-23-2004, 07:19 PM
Wow, I couldn't believe it when I saw this today. From reading Positively Fifth Street I had pretty much come to the conclusion that Murphy and Tabish were murderers, so it's very hard for me to comprehend that they got off. It just seemed as though the evidence was so overwhelming...but I guess that's why they have trials.

Gramps
11-23-2004, 08:48 PM
Probably has to do with "beyond a reasonable doubt" being the standard. The evidence (at least the circumstantial stuff I've heard about) seemed to point to a murder (I like the video of her stealthily stealing the glass the next day), but the fact that he was a heroin addict and died of a heroin overdose...probalby put enough doubt in a couple of the jurors' minds, where they all "compromised" on the lesser charges which will probably carry a hefty prison sentence nonetheless.

deacsoft
11-23-2004, 08:50 PM
Don't you just love our justice system?

What a crock of [censored]! /images/graemlins/mad.gif

westmt01
11-23-2004, 08:55 PM
The first jury didn't have any reasonable doubts.

This is a case of justice having been bought and paid for. It's that simple.

TorontoCFE
11-23-2004, 09:23 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if they met with an unfortunate accident sometime in the future.

Gramps
11-23-2004, 09:28 PM
I think it's a lot less simple than that. You get a group of ordinary people on a jury who are told the prosecution has to prove their case beyond a reasonble doubt - that's a very high standard. You have a heroin addict who purchased a large amount of heroin shortly before his death, who died of a heroin overdose - there's going to be doubts in a lot of those people's minds, no matter what the evidence to the contrary is.

From what I've seen/heard I think it's pretty obvious it was a murder, but unfortunately we don't have a "crystal ball" that will show a jury what happened, they get to make up their minds whether the evidence has been met. You lower the standard, a lot more innocent people get put in jail - you raise the standard a lot more guilty people get off. Neither one is perfect.

And yes, if you have $$ to hire top-notch legal help, you have a HUGE advantage over your average citizen. High paid attorneys can be very good at putting doubts in jurors' minds - especially if they have a good "hook" (like there was in this case) to work with.

Overdrive
11-24-2004, 06:44 AM
[ QUOTE ]
For those who've read Positively Fifth Street, you'll know the background:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6568016/

(Don't know if this has been already posted, no search results.)

[/ QUOTE ]

I read Positively Fifth Sreet and am shocked that they have been set off the hook. Insane.

The lesson to take from Positively Fifth Street and the Binion case is to never, ever, never ever never fall in love or trust a stripper or a prostitute in any way no matter what you may think. If you want to use their services fine, just do that and be done with it, but never try to develop a friendship or realtionship with them. Ever.

At one point in the book he talks about the time Sandy told Ted she didn't want him for his money and Ted believed her saying, "Nobody is that good of an actor." Oh yes they are.

Never trust a ho.
G's up - ho's down.

Martin Aigner
11-24-2004, 02:34 PM
I dont know too much about the american legal system, but since Ive read Positively Fifth Street Im now curious whether there could be any consequences for Jim McManus? Could it be possible that the book wont be allowed to be sold anymore (without correcting the book this is)? Or might it even be possible for Murphy and Tabish to get money out of McManus?

Just curious

Martin Aigner

Beerfund
11-24-2004, 02:59 PM
Murphy had the number 1 forensic pathologist in the world( Michael Baden) testify that the death was an overdose and couldnt have been done by anyone but Binion himself. This is what created the reasonable doubt in the minds of the jury. I read both reports from the prosecutors pathologist and Badens' and it seems like Baden had to stretch alot of if's and but's to make his points.

westmt01
11-24-2004, 03:10 PM
If Benny Binion were still alive, they would already have met with an "unfortunate accident". It still might happen, but from what I understand Tabish will still be in jail for quite a while on other charges, and I doubt the Binions can get to him in there. To be honest with you, I doubt the Binions will go after either one in that manner, though I would be very surprised if they did not hit both with a civil lawsuit (the way the Goldmans went after O.J.). Sandy will leech off this rich guy that's bankrolling her, but Tabish hopefully will be destitute for the rest of his life.

Toro
11-24-2004, 03:14 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I dont know too much about the american legal system, but since Ive read Positively Fifth Street Im now curious whether there could be any consequences for Jim McManus? Could it be possible that the book wont be allowed to be sold anymore (without correcting the book this is)? Or might it even be possible for Murphy and Tabish to get money out of McManus?

[/ QUOTE ]

You mean McManus being sued for libel? I seriously doubt it. I'm no legal scholar but the standards for proof in Civil trials are a lot different than for Criminal trials. In a Criminal trial it's beyond a reasonable doubt but for a Civil trial you only have to tip the scales of justice slightly in your favor(51%) to prevail. So McManus would use "truth" as his libel defense with this standard of proof.

And of course there is the whole "absence of malice" thing that the press often falls back on even when they are wrong in their reporting.

How many people have written that OJ is a murderer even after he was found not guilty. You don't see OJ suing anybody. Same applies here, I think.

westmt01
11-24-2004, 03:16 PM
You're right, "simple" wasn't a good way for me to have put it. I'm frustrated because I believe 100% that Murphy and Tabish are guilty, and so I hate to see them walk. Justice was not served.

Sandy Murphy is the quintessential leech: she leeched off Ted Binion, and now this 85-year old guy (I don't remember his name) who's bankrolling her. She belongs in jail, yet she'll be living the good life on other people's money probably for the rest of her life. It makes me sick.

Beerfund
11-24-2004, 03:44 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I dont know too much about the american legal system, but since Ive read Positively Fifth Street Im now curious whether there could be any consequences for Jim McManus? Could it be possible that the book wont be allowed to be sold anymore (without correcting the book this is)? Or might it even be possible for Murphy and Tabish to get money out of McManus?

[/ QUOTE ]

You mean McManus being sued for libel? I seriously doubt it. I'm no legal scholar but the standards for proof in Civil trials are a lot different than for Criminal trials. In a Criminal trial it's beyond a reasonable doubt but for a Civil trial you only have to tip the scales of justice slightly in your favor(51%) to prevail. So McManus would use "truth" as his libel defense with this standard of proof.

And of course there is the whole "absence of malice" thing that the press often falls back on even when they are wrong in their reporting.

How many people have written that OJ is a murderer even after he was found not guilty. You don't see OJ suing anybody. Same applies here, I think.

[/ QUOTE ]


Libel and slander are the hardest things to prove in a courtroom because you have to prove a direct finacial loss. OJ could never prove that someone writing that he's a murderer caused him to lose money because he allready had such a negative image just from being accused.

Kama45
11-24-2004, 03:53 PM
[ QUOTE ]
You're right, "simple" wasn't a good way for me to have put it. I'm frustrated because I believe 100% that Murphy and Tabish are guilty, and so I hate to see them walk. Justice was not served.

Sandy Murphy is the quintessential leech: she leeched off Ted Binion, and now this 85-year old guy (I don't remember his name) who's bankrolling her. She belongs in jail, yet she'll be living the good life on other people's money probably for the rest of her life. It makes me sick.

[/ QUOTE ]

Be mad at the dumbasses who allow her in their life. There are no victims here.

tubbyspencer
11-24-2004, 04:26 PM
[ QUOTE ]
The lesson to take from Positively Fifth Street and the Binion case is to never, ever, never ever never fall in love or trust a stripper or a prostitute in any way no matter what you may think. If you want to use their services fine, just do that and be done with it, but never try to develop a friendship or realtionship with them. Ever.


[/ QUOTE ]

I find it amusing that you needed Positvely Fifth Street to let you in on that one. Sounds like you're maybe bitter from personal experience as well. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Greg (FossilMan)
11-24-2004, 04:55 PM
Martin, the standards in Europe and the US are very different. Here, Jim is fine, and can continue to sell his book as is. However, he and I were chatting the other day, and he said that if they were acquitted, it would cost him a lot of money as his book would need to be pulled in Europe because of the tougher libel/slander laws there.

I guess his book is being pulled there now. You'll just have to come to the US to buy it.

Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)

_And1_
11-24-2004, 06:00 PM
Hey greg, there is a thing called mail order /images/graemlins/wink.gif
I think one could order it on the "web" even...

(sorry couldnt help myself, next one is on me)

Gramps
11-24-2004, 07:15 PM
"The jury found the suspects guilty of conspiracy, grand larceny and burglary."

I don't know how long the sentence will be, but take some solace in the fact that they won't be "walking" for a number of years.

Gramps
11-24-2004, 07:38 PM
But I'm sure his conclusions had nothing to do with who was paying him...riiiiggghhhtttt....

My favorite in this regard was related to the Joan Benet Ramsey case. The family hired some profilist (when they were doing their PR campaign when this was still a big news story) who used to be the top guy for the FBI, probably getting paid some serious $$/hour. On some interview show that the Ramseys appeared on (20/20 or one of those), he was also interviewed and asked if he (one of the top criminal profilists in the world) believed either of the Ramseys had any involvement in the death of their daughter (based on his interviews with the Ramseys, and how they match up profile-wise to the type of person/parent who would be involved in something like this).

Of course he said "no," and when pressed for a reason he (instead of using any "profilist jargon speak") just said they were really nice people, and he "knew in his heart" they would never be involved in anything like this.

I know that doesn't prove anything, but when that highly paid criminal profilist couldn't even bring himself to give some technical-based, qualified half-ass argument in support of his claim that the Ramseys weren't involved...made me think he thought at least one of them fit some type of profile pretty well.

Maybe I just watch too many FBI files shows.

BusterStacks
11-25-2004, 02:07 AM
SANDY MURPHAYYYYYYYYYYY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

youtalkfunny
11-25-2004, 03:28 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Here, Jim is fine...However, he and I were chatting the other day...

[/ QUOTE ]

NAME-DROPPER!!!


(You'd think this was funny, if you knew how often I've dropped Greg's name this year. I don't even know Greg, but we've had our names mentioned in the same threads before...with his name in the center of the page, and mine along the left-hand side...)

jtr
11-25-2004, 02:39 PM
[ QUOTE ]
The lesson to take from Positively Fifth Street and the Binion case is to never, ever, never ever never fall in love or trust a stripper or a prostitute in any way no matter what you may think.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmm. That sounds a bit like concluding that one should never ever draw to an inside straight no matter what. Seems to me if you're going to rule out ever trusting prostitutes and strippers then you'll probably need to not trust the rest of the population as well, just in case they have or had a secret life in the sex industry also.

Recognize your options, quantify risks and rewards, act accordingly. If you can agree on that, surely you can agree that there will be cases in which trusting a particular prostitute is +EV.