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ASaintsFan
10-12-2004, 06:41 AM
Hi there,

I would like some info and advice. I am interested in working in a UK casino. Assuming there are a few of you guys out there who read these forums, can you tell me a bit what it is like? As a dealer, what sort of hours do you work, how much can you expect to start on, promotions/prospects, that sort of thing.

Also, is it possible to get a job in an assistant manager type role without table experience? Has anyone ever done this, and if so how difficult was it? If you are a manager, would you consider hiring someone with management, but not casino, experience?

I really appreciate any advice, I'm at a real decision point in my life and need all the help I can get

Thanks!

Steve

daveymck
10-12-2004, 10:34 AM
I am not a dealer but I heard one talking at a poker tournie the other week, when asked he was on £28,000 a year I guess working a 40 hour week. He stated that was about average some where on more and the manager a bit more. As I understand it in UK casinos you are not allowed to tip the dealers but this is not from experience so cant say 100%.

It may not be a bad time to get experience in the Industry with the new laws going through parliment and mgm and others waiting to invest an alleged 8.5 billion to make a number of super casinos I guess the rates of pay and opportunities to move into management would increase.

May be worth posting this on the hendon mob forum as there are more uk people there who should know.

cockandbull
10-12-2004, 11:07 AM
typically you spend your first six weeks attending training, for which you are paid around £17,500 (london wage). The training hours are 10am-6pm.

Most casinos have different shift patterns avaible, a normal working week would be 11pm-7am, 9pm-4am, 9pm-4am, 1pm-9pm, 1pm-9pm. Some other patterns avaible include a four day rota, which is basically four 9pm-7am, a three day week, three 13 hour shift, 4pm-5am.

With regards to coming straight into a management position, it doesnt really work like that, you have to have casino exp, but with some chains they offer a "fast track" to a management position. This is normally avaible to people with one year exp.

If you require any more info your more than welcome to pm me.

laters

harry

ASaintsFan
10-12-2004, 12:17 PM
Davey,

You hit the nail on the head. The planned deregulation in the UK (and subsequest expansion of the industry) is exactly why I am interested in this. I currently have a dull job and my only real interest (apart from my partner, friends etc etc - you know important stuff) is playing poker and gambling in general. I would love to own my own casino one day - and I guess to do that you have to start at the ground floor.

So thanks for your info, and if possible, can you let me know the address of the hendon mob forum as I have never heard of it - please forgive my ignorance.

Cheers

spamuell
10-12-2004, 01:35 PM
Hendon Mob Forum (http://www.thehendonmob.com/MobForum/forum.php?f=1)

Cubswin
10-12-2004, 08:24 PM
If you are looking to work in a UK casino I assume you are a EU resident? Im not sure if your ďSaintsĒ name is for the New Orleans saints or some euro footie team. If you are arnt a EU resident I think your chances of landing a job in one of the new casinos is slim to none. The whole premise of the UK deregulation is economic revitalization in struggling areas so I donít think too many jobs are going to be set aside for non-EU citizens.

cubs

cockandbull
10-12-2004, 09:14 PM
i sure if he came over now he'd be fine, most casinos are really short staffed, even places like the ritz find it difficult to keep staff.

laters

harry

ASaintsFan
10-13-2004, 02:56 AM
n/m

ASaintsFan
10-13-2004, 02:57 AM
Saints = Southampton Football Club, then best "Euro Footie" team on the South Coast

daveymck
10-13-2004, 04:18 AM
[ QUOTE ]
I think your chances of landing a job in one of the new casinos is slim to none. The whole premise of the UK deregulation is economic revitalization in struggling areas so I donít think too many jobs are going to be set aside for non-EU citizens.

cubs

[/ QUOTE ]

The UK doesnt work like that, I think there will be a lot of opportunities particulary for US nationals with experience of working in these super casinos. Jobs may not be set aside but they will be filled by whoever. I suspect US people wanting to travel round europe, with casino experince would be able to use the UK as a base to work and travel in their spare time.

Working in London and it is spreading UK wide starting to see that most lesser paid jobs, shops, cleaners etc are being done by non UK citizens, I suspect a lot of jobs will be lower paid (cleaning, security etc) so will more likely be filled by non UK (possibly non EU) people.

The Saints are affectionatly known as the Scummers by their local rivals.

daveymck
10-13-2004, 04:35 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Davey,

You hit the nail on the head. The planned deregulation in the UK (and subsequest expansion of the industry) is exactly why I am interested in this. I currently have a dull job and my only real interest (apart from my partner, friends etc etc - you know important stuff) is playing poker and gambling in general. I would love to own my own casino one day - and I guess to do that you have to start at the ground floor.



[/ QUOTE ]

Its not complete deregulation in essence it is going to give us regional Vegas style casinos, which are going to be heavily regulated and also isnt relaxing the laws much on smaller casinos. The main focus from what I have read is keeping the "category a" slots down, to get the full space allowed for these slots the casinos are going to have to have gaming tables of an area for around 20-40 gaming tables (probably good news for poker).

I suspect that with the way casinos are looked at in the UK we will probably be looking at 1 or 2 being developed early on with Blackpool probably having the first one as they have been waiting for this for years, but I think you are probably looking at 10-15 years before this spreads right round the country.

For these supercasinos to be a success they are going to have to educate the masses to lose the stigma that casinos currently have and get people in there.

There was talk of maybe building a casino in my home town and there was huge uproar, saying the wrong sorts would be attracted along with other problems, until we get past that stage it will be interesting to see how the new places fare.

The full new draft act (including intenet gaming etc) can be found here, http://www.culture.gov.uk/gambling_and_racing/gambling_bill.htm

Its quite interesting, and I beleive is going into parliment this week.

ASaintsFan
10-13-2004, 05:32 AM
Hi Davey,

I have also read quite a lot about the planned deregulation, and I hope to see more this week when(if) it comes before parliament.

You're right, the major changes will be with the 'Regional' casinos, and I know there are a few planned already...Blackpool like you say, Star City outside of Birmingham, The new Wembley project, and I think there is one other in London planned also.

I also think we will see changes elsewhere though. The scrapping of the rule regarding where you are allowed to open a casino (currently 53 locations in the UK?) will lead to more small (5000sq ft gaming floor) and medium (10000 sqft gaming floor) casinos in new locations in new cities. Also, without the 24 hour rule casinos will become far more accessible to the casual visitor.

I have seen quotes of expected 300%-500% increase in the industry as a whole over the next 5 year. And it may be unrealistic but if possible I want a part of that.

Regarding the stigma surrounding casinos/gambling I think you might be a bit pessimistic. I saw a survey where 4% of people in the UK said they had visited a casino that year. This was compared to a similar survey in the US where the figure was 30%. As our laws change and our casino scene becomes more like that in the US I believe gambling will be more and more an 'acceptable' leisure pastime. - There are people out there with billions riding on it...

daveymck
10-13-2004, 06:48 AM
[ QUOTE ]
I have seen quotes of expected 300%-500% increase in the industry as a whole over the next 5 year. And it may be unrealistic but if possible I want a part of that.

Regarding the stigma surrounding casinos/gambling I think you might be a bit pessimistic. I saw a survey where 4% of people in the UK said they had visited a casino that year. This was compared to a similar survey in the US where the figure was 30%. As our laws change and our casino scene becomes more like that in the US I believe gambling will be more and more an 'acceptable' leisure pastime. - There are people out there with billions riding on it...

[/ QUOTE ]

I am not in the industry (and have visited a UK casino once, and never gambled)but I think the 300-500% growth is optomistic, the main investment is going to have to be in the education of the british public that it is an acceptable pastime (ironically is it really bearing in mind the -ev of most casino games)but in our society where bingo and going to the bookies is more acceptable (and maybe bingo will be the way to get people into the super casinos), I think getting casinos form the in the main back streets will help but I do thin kits a longer term thing than a great boom in the first couple of years.

I am hoping that it will have a positive effect on poker ie more and some limit tables introduced.

You are obviously well read in this good luck in your future endeavours.

spamuell
10-13-2004, 09:36 AM
[ QUOTE ]
in our society where bingo and going to the bookies is more acceptable

[/ QUOTE ]

It's a class thing really, the middle classes pretty much don't go to bookies or play bingo, except for over 60s (and, with bookies, under 18s lol). I think the new casinos will largely be aimed at the middle classes who have can afford to lose more money, so I doubt they'll start with bingo as they might fear this would exclude some people. It's connected with family as well, bookies and bingo are seen as being populated by lonely, single people whereas casinos will likely be aimed at families. This is how I perceive it anyway, I will be interested to see what they do, I can't wait until the casinos open.

Especially if they do have limit hold'em, can you imagine how soft it will be? There are about 3 people in the whole country who know how to play, so I'll request a table change whenever I'm with you or Tosh.

daveymck
10-13-2004, 11:00 AM
I was under the impression that bingo was doing well and was attracting a younger customer than in the past, particulary the country wide link ups that can have huge jackpots. Its not all smoky working mens clubs these days, the bookies you are right though. Dont casinos have Keno which is bingo in disguise, I wonder how popular the sky channels are that are doing keno and virtual horse racing etc.

Our country doesnt have a history of blackjack, roulette etc and with no children allowed in the place, there is the possibility they will be allowed in certain non gaming areas, I dont see the family angle coming in unless the casino is linked to other leisure facilities.

It will be interesting to see what happoens more from the poker point of view, and also with online gaming becoming legalised if we will see all the Gibralter based online groups coming back to the uk to get licencing.

Cubswin
10-13-2004, 07:46 PM
I have been following the UK Gaming Bill fairly closely as i a have a vested interest as I am a shareholder of one of the companies looking to expand its operations in the UK. I am about halfway done reading the bill and will post wire updates as they become available. (i posted a series of articles about ceasars' wembley plans, as well as a picture of what the casino is suppose to look like, in the B&M forum yesterday so check out that post if you are interested).

I beleive is going into parliment this week.

...and expected to be passed next summer. There are still lots of things that have to be worked (tax rates, number of slots, progressive slots etc etc) so it will take awhile. Im also guessing this bill will be slowed some in the lords...

cubs

daveymck
10-14-2004, 05:00 AM
Yes its just the first reading I suspect this week.

I read the bill a few months ao so cant remeber it all, but looking at the recommendations for the Sub Committe in essence they are happy with the bill and I can see it pretty much sailing through parliment.

Looks like the internet side is not getting any focus and they are manily worried about whether children will be allowed near and having an area where gamblers can chill with no games around so they can think about if they want to lose more.

As I have said previously I think this is going to more of long term building up of the industry in the UK rather than instant huge profits for these companies.