View Full Version : Debatable Party 30+3 PLO8 MTT Play as Chip Leader Late in Tourney

09-06-2004, 11:54 PM
I was hoping to get some opinions on my game here. It's a 30+3 Party PLO8 MTT with 210 entrants, paying 30 people. At this point there are 21 people left, so an average stack of 10,000, and I'm the chip leader with 21.5k, with the 2nd stack having around 18. For context, 5 or 10 hands ago, I had bet the pot preflop with a hand I don't recall, with only the Villian calling. He made a small bet on the flop, I came over the top for a little more than half of the pot, and he laid down.

Party Poker Pot-Limit Omaha/8 Tourney, Big Blind is t1000 (7 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

saw flop|<font color="C00000">saw showdown</font>

BB (t18219)
UTG (t8108)
MP1 (t8777)
MP2 (t1603)
<font color="C00000">CO <font color="purple">(Villian)</font> (t13064)</font>
<font color="C00000">Hero (t21388)</font>
SB (t5920)

Preflop: Hero is Button with K/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, <font color="CC3333">CO <font color="purple">(Villian)</font> raises to t2000</font>, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises to t7500</font>, SB folds, BB folds, <font color="CC3333">CO <font color="purple">(Villian)</font> raises to t13064 (All-In)</font>, Hero calls t5564.

Flop: (t27628) 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(2 players, 1 all-in)</font>

Turn: (t27628) Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(2 players, 1 all-in)</font>

River: (t27628) 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(2 players, 1 all-in)</font>

Final Pot: t27628
<font color="green">Main Pot: t27628 (t27628), between Villian and Hero.</font> &gt; <font color="white">Scooped by Villian (t27628).</font>

What are the thoughts on this play? Specifically:

1. Was I too aggressive coming over the top with Kings and 2 low cards? A constant theme throughout the tournament (for me) was constantly playing to win, not to make the final table, but that may have made me overcompensate and be too aggressive. I didn't like the idea of making a small reraise in that spot, I felt it showed too much weakness behind a raiser.

2. I felt, when he came over the top all in, I was pot committed. Would people have layed it down there? Obviously he is representing aces, but you can't be sure of that, and I still have pot odds with room to spare assuming 100% aces. While it's a tourney and pot odds don't apply in a ring-game fashion, I also can't assume the aces (or is it 99% aces in this situation?).

I feel I have a good grasp on PLO8, I am by no means experienced, having played a limited amount of ring games and SNGs; I believe this way my first PLO8 MTT. I say this only to point out that the "don't risk your MTT on pot odds/coin flips since you are the best player" may not necessarily apply in full.

09-07-2004, 02:25 PM
Well I really dislike this in several ways.

1) No wheel draw. It is rare that I play any hand that does not have a wheel draw. The only way I play this is if I can limp from the button.

2) KK not really that good of a hand in O/8 in high only, a much, much, much better hand. What I hate about the hand is that in o/8 people play aces a lot more. If an ace comes your hand is surely dead for high and you just have a 2-6 to ride your fate on.

3) Does in mean aces - NO. PL High it might. I can easily see A-2XXs or A23X or A34Xs. If you think it means aces fold.

Not sure of the other hands you play, or my skill level, but if you were chip leader and played this way it might be time to move from Paradise to Party.

09-07-2004, 03:24 PM
Thanks for the gratuitous dig comic, really makes me feel warm and fuzzy inside .....

Joking aside, I obviously made a poor play here. The raiser had been doing a large amount of stealing, and I let my desire to pick off his steal override the fact that hey, my hand isn't that good, and if he comes over the top I'm pot commited for 2/3 of my stack with 2 basically naked kings. Next time I'll try to play "good" for the whole tourney, instead of giving away my chips to anyone who asks nicely.

09-07-2004, 05:50 PM
First let me start by saying that I am no expert, but here is my opinion.

I think this is a poor play, chip leader or not. The first thing you should consider is what hands does this guy raise with? If you think he has AAxx, then you are obviously making a poor play. Against just an A2xx, you are only a slight favorite for high and a huge dog for low. Against an A234ds, you are even less of a favorite for high and even more of a dog for low. My point is, you put in a significant part of your stack in a situation where you are either only slightly ahead or are a big dog. There are other hands he could be raising with, but chances are he probably has one you dont want to be up against.

I think as the chip leader late in a tourney, you have to put pressure on the other players, but you have to have the hand to do it with (most of the time). Fold this one and wait for a better spot.

pokenum -mc 500000 -o8 kc kd 2s 6d - ah 2c 7c 9d
Omaha Hi/Low 8-or-better: 500000 sampled boards
cards scoop HIwin HIlos HItie LOwin LOlos LOtie EV
2s Kc Kd 6d 162260 289656 210344 0 66899 104546 11401 0.509
7c 2c 9d Ah 149786 210344 289656 0 196893 50928 11401 0.491

pokenum -mc 500000 -o8 kc kd 2s 6d - ah as 2h 3s
Omaha Hi/Low 8-or-better: 500000 sampled boards
cards scoop HIwin HIlos HItie LOwin LOlos LOtie EV
2s Kc Kd 6d 75652 136496 361811 1693 17001 142412 3876 0.230
As 3s Ah 2h 343450 361811 136496 1693 237309 5787 3876 0.770