JJ in 3rd hand of a sit'n'go

ninja please · #1 02-09-2004, 10:32 PM

i've been experimenting for the first time with no limit tournaments the last couple of nights. i'm a fairly solid limit player, but i am pretty inexperienced in tournament play, and have basically never played no limit. so, obviously, i am often faced with situations where i'm not sure what to do.

this is the third hand of a 5+1 paradise NLHE sit and go. starting stacks are 1000, blinds are 5/10.

i'm dealt JJ on the button. 4 players call the BB to me, and i raise to 50. blinds and first limper fold, 3 others call.

flop: AT3, 2 hearts (neither of my Js is a heart)
checked to third limper, who bets 20.

what's the play here? do i put in a raise, or just assume an A is out there and fold. i folded to the bet because it was so early in the game that i really didn't want to get caught up in a war with an A that probably will probably be showing down his hand no matter what my bets represent.

was this too weak?

and, as an aside, does anyone have any links or suggestions for links to reading on an intro to no limit play?

curmudgeon · #2 02-10-2004, 12:11 AM

There's over 220 in the pot....... don't fold to a 20 bet.
Call or raise. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Nottom · #3 02-10-2004, 12:14 AM

You need to make a bigger raise preflop. With 4 players in, I would bet about 100.

After the flop, I'd probably call him down and hope hes too stupid to make more than a min bet.

ninja please · #4 02-10-2004, 12:49 AM

[ QUOTE ]
After the flop, I'd probably call him down and hope hes too stupid to make more than a min bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

thanks for the reply. i considered this, but what if i call and he makes a significantly bigger bet on the turn? i figured calling was just asking for him to put me to a real decision on the turn, and i didn't want to just hope that he wouldn't be good enough to do that.

the way i see it, which may or may not be right, since i'm so inexperienced, is that if i am going to see the turn i should probably raise the flop. this will at least (hopefully) clear out the other limpers. but do i bet or check the turn? and if i check through and don't improve, can i call a bet from him on the river? boy, this NL stuff is complicated.

anyhow, just to add insult to weak play, the turn was a J which would have given me a set. i don't know what he had because he wasn't called on the river. i like to think he had the flush draw on the flop because it came in so really i just saved myself all my chips... [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Cosimo · #5 02-10-2004, 01:22 AM

That's one reason to not fold a 220 pot to a 20 bet. If he really has an ace, you've got two outs, which isn't worth much. But, again, a minbet? Either he has a very weak ace, or he's trapping. Minbetting a draw seems like a foolish play to me.

I have found that bluffing works often enough at low-limit SNGs, especially after raising 3-5x preflop. Everyone thinks I have AK or AA or KK, and I've won a ton of pots on the flop by betting out against an A-high flop. If it gets to the turn, another bet can win it. And if I get reraised all-in, it's an easy fold. (At least, that's what I've been doing after reading some of the masters post on good NL play.)

Nottom · #6 02-10-2004, 07:54 AM

[ QUOTE ]
the way i see it, which may or may not be right, since i'm so inexperienced, is that if i am going to see the turn i should probably raise the flop. this will at least (hopefully) clear out the other limpers. but do i bet or check the turn? and if i check through and don't improve, can i call a bet from him on the river? boy, this NL stuff is complicated.

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe, maybe not. People do weird things in these SnGs. Honestly, I lied about calling him down. I would probably call the turn bet (basically just to see the turn with out getting raised off my hand, just in case there is a miracle J waiting for me there) and then raise him on the turn if he comes out with another weak bet to set up a free showdown on the river. If he makes a more legit bet on the turn, I'd certainly have to take that into consideration.

Stagemusic · #7 02-10-2004, 08:09 AM

I think your preflop raise is just fine given the circumstances. I would probably call or minimum raise the flop bet as it is a pretty cheap way to see where you stand. You have great position and will be able to get out of the hand with no more damage if the turn doesn't improve you. Also, the bettor is likely to check the turn card or bet the minimum to you giving you another relatively free shot at your set on the river.