A few random 1 Table Thoughts

[La Brujita]

A few thoughts have been floating through my head. I thought I would put them here.

1. When two people are in a pot and both are getting correct pot odds to be there, both have played well. This doesn't stop the player with the worse hand from being "lucky" in my mind if he/she wins. In one sense you are lucky, in another you are not. You obviously are not lucky since it was a break even or a bit better proposition for you. But you are lucky in the sense that it was much better than a break even proposition for the opponent. This might be a bit confusing/muddled but it has been on my mind for a while. As an example if I go all in with a straight flush draw with a 60% chance to win and you have the correct odds to call, if you draw out are you lucky or not. I still think you are, at least in one sense of the word.

2. When HU at Party, I love players who are passive. With the big blinds, folding a lot pre flop means death. Also, I love players who never raise from the button pre flop. When I get this non raising player, I rarely reraise from the BB because I don't want that player to get more aggressive. Is this correct? I think it is.

3. The one thing that is really starting to bother me about Party is that in a tournament with 800 chips, you are almost forced to go all in in a raised pot. As an example, first hand of a tournament one caller, I raised to 125 with red aces J3 hearts cold called, everyone else folded. With about 300 in the pot and 675 in front of me, I only really have one choice, push all in when rags flop (flop 3xx turn J river k). This is why Stars is so much better.

4. I am an idiot about occasionally berating bad play. Like in the hand above. If I had more control, I would just keep my stupid mouth shut. I read somewhere, and I agree, something to the effect that you cannot a great poker player if you cannot handle outdraws with equanimity. See Phil Hellmuth for an exception.

5. One person called me an idiot for making the following play. He claimed he had been a pro for 10 years (he was hopefully lying). We were two relatively short stacks battling for third with four left at Party. Blinds are 100-200 and he raises to 400. I call from the BB with 9-3 of hearts. Flop comes 9xx and I check and call his all in. He turns over aj and wins on a inside straight. He had ten outs on the flop so he was correct to go all in given our chip totals. But he called my 9-3 call idiotic. I thought he was idiotic for not pricing me out of the pot. I think there is a poker saying it is almost never incorrect to call a minimum raise when in the BB. This has to be true with two suited cards.

6. People often miscount outs. In the hand I mentioned above he told me he had 10 outs. That is not exactly the case since if he got a A or J on the turn, I could spike a 9 or 3 on the river. In other words you can't just flip to the chart in HEPFAP and see 10 outs and think you are correct.

Those are some of my random thoughts that have been on my chest.

[Pitcher]

[ QUOTE ]
5. One person called me an idiot for making the following play. He claimed he had been a pro for 10 years (he was hopefully lying). We were two relatively short stacks battling for third with four left at Party. Blinds are 100-200 and he raises to 400. I call from the BB with 9-3 of hearts. Flop comes 9xx and I check and call his all in. He turns over aj and wins on a inside straight. He had ten outs on the flop so he was correct to go all in given our chip totals. But he called my 9-3 call idiotic. I thought he was idiotic for not pricing me out of the pot. I think there is a poker saying it is almost never incorrect to call a minimum raise when in the BB. This has to be true with two suited cards.


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I have one for you on this topic of being berated. I was playing a $30 Sit N Go. 4 players left. I have a medium stack and pick up A-4o. I am UTG and the blinds are 100/200. I to $600. The button calls and the SB / BB fold. The flop comes Q44. I check, and the button bets $400. I call and then check-raise the turn, and bet the river. Turn and river cards seem to be blanks. He turns up QJs and of course I drag the pot with 3 4's. The guy starts berating me saying how I will never be successful playing that kind of garbage.
The fun part is that I ended up winning the tourney and he finished 4th.
All I can say is that this player was completely clueless.

Fun Stuff

Pitcher.

[Prickly Pete]

Hmmm... raising with A4o seems a lot better than calling with QJs in my book. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[CrisBrown]

Hi Pitcher and La Brujita,

Moral of the Story: ignore the Table Chat Poker Academy.

Cris

[AndysDaddy]

[ QUOTE ]

3. The one thing that is really starting to bother me about Party is that in a tournament with 800 chips, you are almost forced to go all in in a raised pot. As an example, first hand of a tournament one caller, I raised to 125 with red aces J3 hearts cold called, everyone else folded. With about 300 in the pot and 675 in front of me, I only really have one choice, push all in when rags flop (flop 3xx turn J river k). This is why Stars is so much better.


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Calling 8xBB raise btf w/J3 (suited or no) is why I *like* playing at Party. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Personally, I would have raised to 50 with AA. With that seemingly non-scarry board, I probably would have busted out too, though...

[La Brujita]

There was already one caller, and the problem with a raise to 50 in a low game (this was $30) is you may well end up with 5 or 6 callers. Of course I am thrilled to have a J3 call me, it was just bad luck.

As to the A4 hand, you played it perfect and it is funny how so many Party "experts" don't realized (a) the changing values of a hand short handed and (b) don't recognize a semi bluff.

[PrayingMantis]

La Brujita,

Interesting thoughts. I also think occasionaly about putting some of my "random thoughts" here, but I'm still collecting them. It's going to be a long post... [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

I have one question though.

[ QUOTE ]
We were two relatively short stacks battling for third with four left at Party. Blinds are 100-200 and he raises to 400. I call from the BB with 9-3 of hearts

[/ QUOTE ]


You don't specify how short are your two stacks here, but are you sure calling with 93s for T200 is a good move, mini-raise or no mini-raise? I will assume you are now at around T1000 or less, so this call is a huge part of your stack. Wouldn't it be better to go-all in of him, if you read him of capable of folding, or simply muck and wait for a somewhat better hand?



Peace,

PrayingMantis

[La Brujita]

Hi PrayingMantis,

Unfortunately I don't remember exactly what the stack sizes were, and that sounds about right (I think about 1200 each). In poker, I am usually all about raise or fold, raising with what I think is the better hand and putting the opponent to the decision. It is part of my core strategy. About 90-95% of the time when I am short stacked I am the aggressor and make the opponent make the decision. And usually at Party, you can get a weaker hand to call you.

This was a tricky situation for both he and I. I also think he didn't play it that badly for reasons I will try to explain. I read him to have the better hand, and he wouldn't have folded to my reraise. I think the reason it was not a bad raise is he was trying to isolate me, without risking his stack to a call from on of the big stacks.

If he raises to 600 (3x BB) and is called by either big stack I happily fold and if he loses I am in the drivers seat for third.

My choice is an uncomfortable one as well, the reason I felt I had to call is with shallow stacks and big blinds, one or two steals and he is in a commanding lead for third. At 3.5:1 I felt I had to call, although out of position and out of my comfort zone.

This, imo, is an example of a really uncomfortable decision for both of us due to the Party structure.