Two Plus Two Older Archives  

Go Back   Two Plus Two Older Archives > 2+2 Communities > Other Other Topics

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 03-03-2003, 01:07 PM
Rick Nebiolo Rick Nebiolo is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 1,179
Default Peggy Noonan on the Democrats

If reading this doesn't make you a Peggy Noonan fan....

http://www.opinionjournal.com/column.../?id=110003143

~ Rick
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 03-03-2003, 01:15 PM
andyfox andyfox is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 4,677
Default Re: Peggy Noonan on the Democrats

Well, maybe you better finish your sentence, because it made me even less of a fan than before, which I didn't think was possible. What a complete crock. No doubt about it, the Republicans have the patent on sincerity and doing things for the good of the country. Give me a break.

Anyway, I'm still a big Rick Nebiolo fan, and that's much more important.

Regards,
Andy
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 03-03-2003, 01:41 PM
HDPM HDPM is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 1,799
Default Re: Peggy Noonan on the Democrats

Ironically, I was reading the Noonan article while Rick N. was posting it. I thought it was exceptional and accurate. I admit that many of her criticisms apply to Republicans as well; Republicans should take heed and watch that they don't merely become a coalition of single-issue, special-interest reactionaries. I criticize Republicans for being inconsistent, but they have a much more cohesive idea than Democrats right now. And look, in many respects Noonan is very left-wing. She wrote glowiningly of the Kennedys and was for extreme gun control even while saying there is a right to own guns. She is middle of the road and is solidly Republican now. Democrats should take heed. Moderate, blue-collar union type Democrats are gone. Well, they're not gone, but a lot vote Republican. No matter what the AlGores of the world say, the fact people like conservative media outlets and vote Republican is not some kind of brainwashing, but has a lot to do with what the liberals stand for and do. To be a successful party, the Democrats are going to have to figure out a new way to go about things.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 03-03-2003, 02:07 PM
Rick Nebiolo Rick Nebiolo is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 1,179
Default Re: Peggy Noonan on the Democrats

HDPM,

For a year or so I've been surfing www.realclearpolitics.com for links to the best of political pundits and columns. Do you have any favorite links to blog type sites that are also worth a look?

~ Rick

Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 03-03-2003, 02:18 PM
HDPM HDPM is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 1,799
Default Re: Peggy Noonan on the Democrats

No, I just usually link to columnists through Drudge. He lists a lot of columnists and newspapers, so that's what I normally check out. I have been reading Noonan more consistently than Buckley or Will. I even read Ivins and Breslin some. [img]/forums/images/icons/tongue.gif[/img]
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 03-03-2003, 02:19 PM
Rick Nebiolo Rick Nebiolo is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 1,179
Default Re: Peggy Noonan on the Democrats

Andy,

How about: "...then you are a committed liberal and will probably be one for life".

Weird tidbits:

Strange but true (more or less): In college and until I reached my mid twenties, I was to the left of John Cole politically. I used to be smarter than him too.

BTW, another favorite pundit is Michael Kelly. He is almost as good as George Will IMO. On this topic, I would love to here your recommendations for a reading list of pundits on the left least likely to make my retch. Avoid shrill voices if possible ;-).

Lastly, why would anybody be a Rick Nebiolo fan? I'm not even a Rick Nebiolo fan [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

Regards,

Rick

Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 03-03-2003, 02:52 PM
andyfox andyfox is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 4,677
Default Re: Peggy Noonan on the Democrats

How about: "...then you are a committed liberal and will probably be one for life".

-Yeah, I expected that, as I got older, I would become more conservative. Hasn't happened much, except on some social issues.

Weird tidbits:

Strange but true (more or less): In college and until I reached my mid twenties, I was to the left of John Cole politically. I used to be smarter than him too.


-I went the other way: I was pretty conservative through college (I got out in 1973) and went the other way in my mid-twenties. I was never smarter than John.

BTW, another favorite pundit is Michael Kelly. He is almost as good as George Will IMO. On this topic, I would love to here your recommendations for a reading list of pundits on the left least likely to make my retch. Avoid shrill voices if possible ;-).

-No one in particular. I read eclectically: Atlantic Monthly, which I know you read, is great; The New Yorker; The Nation for left views. I like Robert Scheer's stuff in the Times, but that may qualify for your retch list.

Lastly, why would anybody be a Rick Nebiolo fan? I'm not even a Rick Nebiolo fan.

-You're missing something really good.

Regards,
Andy

Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 03-03-2003, 03:33 PM
andyfox andyfox is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 4,677
Default Re: Peggy Noonan on the Democrats

"I thought it was exceptional and accurate"

A part of "Pol Pots" animated by the spirit of Mao, Fidel and Ho?

Exceptional? Yes. Accurate? Hardly.

Disgustingly McCarthy-like: Exceptionally.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 03-03-2003, 04:19 PM
HDPM HDPM is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 1,799
Default Re: Peggy Noonan on the Democrats

Well, there's always a danger comparing people to the worst dictators. But I re-read the article for context and don't get bent out of shape about it. There is a significant faction on the left who will forgive the transgressions of collectivist monsters, because they are themselves collectivists. This is prevalent in academia. And the radicalism in the 60's included aid and comfort to these folks. Kids in Berkeley helped Ho, radicals celebrated Che and Fidel and Ho, etc.... These people did not go away. And like Noonan I'm not talking simply of people who protested the war or whatever, but people who really hated America and apologized for (and in some cases helped) left-wing totalitarians.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 03-03-2003, 04:47 PM
andyfox andyfox is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 4,677
Default Re: Peggy Noonan on the Democrats

These people had nothing to do with the Democratic Party. The party nominated Hubert Humphrey in 1968, not Eugene McCarthy. And it would not have nominated Robert Kennedy, no matter what you hear. In those days, the primaries were not delegate-electing primaries. Humphrey didn't even run in the California primary (Kennedy beat McCarthy) because he had the nomination sewn up.

The did nominate McGovern in 1972, but he was not a "collectivist," he simply saw the folly and the evil of the war.

The right has always accused progressives of being "collectivists." It is the right who questions the patriotism of people who are too far to the left for them, not the left that questions the patriotism of those who are too far right for them. It's one thing for an anonymous marcher to hold up a sign calling Bush the equivalent of Hitler. It's another for a nationally known writer like Noonan to call Democrats communists because she doesn't like what they say.

There were indeed people, in the 1960s, who felt there was a genuine opportunity for, if not revolution, a radical leftward restructuring of American politics. Those people did indeed go away, or moved into the mainstream. Tom Hayden ended up as a California assemblyman, for heaven's sake, and writing about being Irish.

There were people on the left who apologized for Stalin in the 1930s; there were people on the right who did the same for Hitler. There were no people in the White House on the left who said the Contras were the moral equivalent of the founding fathers. This was more than "aid and comfort." It was thugs murdering peasants, taught how to do so by our government, and being praised for it by our president.

I reread the article myself, and it is sheer fantasy. For example, Noonan asserts that the Democratic party only wants to thwart the "trek" of the current Republican president. Republicans, in Noonan's world, would never do this.

Did she happen to miss the presidency of Bill Clinton? The Republicans'special prosecutor felt Clinton should be impeached for having oral sex.

Now you know, HDPM, in what little regard I hold Mr. Clinton. But to say Republicans are guided by a higher morality and would never stoop to merely wanting to thwart the trek of a president from the opposing party merely becasue he was from the opposing party is hogwash, pure and simple.

I saw Bob Dole bemoaning the lack of civility in politics the other night. Crude propagandistic namecalling, like Ms. Noonan's piece, makes me agree with him.

Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:17 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.