Limping at Higher Blind Levels

[bluewilde]

Anybody have a general rule for when to stop limping? Often in the higher blind levels, I'm in clear push/fold mode (around 10BB). But, when I have a larger stack, I'll sometimes sneak in with a weaker hand. I have a healthy enough stack that much stealing (pushing in good position) seems not to be worth the risk: I might half my stack (or worse) and double someone up, or I might add 5% to my chips. Maybe I'm wrong, is the same aggressive stealing still correct if you have 1500 chips at lvl 6? 2000? 3000?

In any case, at about what ratio of blinds to stack does limping become just wrong? Is there a raise/fold mode before push/fold? Or do limping hands just become push/fold hands at 10BB?

Hmmm...not sure if this is coming across to clear, anybody need me to rephrase this?

[Oluwafemi]

i usually don't limp at all, regardless of the blind level, unless i'm in the BB unraised preflop.

[tigerite]

You're missing out on some situations in level 1 and 2, and the odd rare one in level 3 then, for instance the low to mid pairs, where you can flop a set, and there are limpers before you. It's nonsense to say you should "never" limp.. but after level 4, it's extremely rare that you ever need to, and level 3 it takes qute a special set of circumstances.

[bluewilde]

So like, at level 4, with 600-1000 chips, 22-55 is a fold UTG, 66-99 take some judgement, and TT+ are push (ok...maybe more complicated an example than I wanted, but there comes a point where changes like this happen? But what if you had 3000 chips UTG in lvl 4 and picked up a pair of 4s? I'd limp, but don't know how short a stack I'd have to have before I'd fold (probably 2000).

[skierdude1000]

I'd preffer to raise and try to take the pot on the flop

[Oluwafemi]

[ QUOTE ]
You're missing out on some situations in level 1 and 2, and the odd rare one in level 3 then, for instance the low to mid pairs, where you can flop a set, and there are limpers before you. It's nonsense to say you should "never" limp.. but after level 4, it's extremely rare that you ever need to, and level 3 it takes qute a special set of circumstances.

[/ QUOTE ]

i did'nt say You should never limp, i said I don't usually limp. at the level i play, i benefit alot [more than i do not]
by abstaining from limping. i see so many players kill themselves either by limping too much or allowing shorter stacks to limp too much. on most occasions, unless in the BB unraised preflop, i'm coming in for a raise everytime i play a hand. if you're coming to flop something , then you're gonna have to pay to do it. i like to play a force-the-action kind of game. the mistake alot of low level players make is coming along for the ride by calling when they should have just folded their holding in the first place. let me give you an example from a SNG i played awhile ago where there was too much limping.

6-handed, blinds 50/100, i'm [2700] sitting on the button with: A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

one guy limps 100, *2 folds to me, i raise to 300, SB calls 250, BB [shortest stack] calls 100.

flop comes: 5 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]6 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] rainbow [1200]

the SB goes all-in, BB shortstack calls, and the original limp raise caller also goes all-in. i fold.

SB turn up K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] [TP King Kicker]
BB shortstack turns over 5 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]6 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] [two pair, 5s and 6s]
the limp-raise caller turns over: pocket Aces

the turn comes the third Ace for trips and neither the SB or BB improve on the river and are both knocked out. now, i baffles me that the original limper would even attempt limping with Aces with so many potential villians who limp behind just to catch something. even more baffling is that he did'nt reraise after my initial raise and two cold calls by the SB and BB. it just so happens that both of them caught something on the flop, the BB shortstack with the best of it- two pair. the original limper does'nt know how fortunate he was to catch the forth Ace, not knowing i had the third.

point being, this is a clear example of why i don't like to limp and why i like to force-the-action. my raise forced two players with weaker hands to come along for the ride and caused the original limper to [mistakeningly, IMO] slowplay his Aces [quite possible for more value]. the SB and BB both shot themselves in the foot a good bit before this hand transpired because of limping. i've seen this happen a whole lot.

[Matt R.]

I think it's a mistake to open limp in party's sng's at level 3 and up. I'll limp in behind with other limpers already in, but I'll pretty much never open limp. An exception that occurs on rare occasions is when one or both of the blinds are extremely loose preflop with calling raises, and I want to see a flop but I don't want to risk too many chips to do it. In the vast majority of cases though, I think the chips in the pot are too valuable to not contest them with a raise. Even if you have a huge stack and 75 or 150 chips isn't much to you, they ARE a lot to someone else (if you're a big stack, chances are there are at least a couple short stacks out there). So I guess my general rule is never open limp (on party sng's at least) when blinds are 25/50 and up, unless there is a rare instance when everyone left has a large # of BB's (everyone busts early on) or the blinds are crazy loose and I don't want to commit too much to the pot with a semi-decent but not great hand.