Probably a stupid question but....

[djj6835]

This may have been discussed before, so if so I apologize.
Some backround first....Level 5 of a party SNG
(75/150 blinds, I'm in the SB with about 900 chips. It's folded to me in the SB and I push with two cards, BB who had me covered by about 300 instacalls with A2 and wins. He then of course procedes to berate me, tell me how stupid I am etc. Then he said something that I found kind of interesting. He told me that if I had just raised to 400, nearly half my stack, he would of folded, but since I pushed he called. I guess my question is, against your typical bad party poker opponent, does pushing really give you more folding equity. The likely response is that this was just an isolated case regarding one player, but after constantly seeing people call all-ins with very weak holdings, I just begin to wonder if there aren't a lot more people which feel the same way as this particular player feels. There probably aren't enough players who actually play like this to justify not pushing, but I just thought it was something to consider.

[The Yugoslavian]

Sorry....I didn't read your post BECAUSE THE WHOLE DAMN THING WAS ONE RUNON TEXT ORGY OF KANTIAN PROPORTIONS.

[img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Seriously though, you would have a much higher chance for people to read your post and give it some solid thought if it's broken down into some sort of readable state....

Yugoslav

[citanul]

[ QUOTE ]
Sorry....I didn't read your post BECAUSE THE WHOLE DAMN THING WAS ONE RUNON TEXT ORGY OF KANTIAN PROPORTIONS.

[/ QUOTE ]

haha, he made a kant joke. that's funny.

citanul

[djj6835]

I honestly don't know if I can make it more concise, but I'll give it a shot.

1. I push with 900 chips from SB in into 1200 chip BB at level 5 a party SNG (75/150 blinds). I had two cards, not sure which ones though.

2. BB calls with A2, wins, then tells me if I had just raised to 400 he would have folded.

now to the question.....

Against your typical poor player, does one really have more folding equity by pushing instead of making a standard raise? I notice a lot of very loose calls of all ins and am wondering if some of this is due to mentality that a push is a bluff, and a standard raise is a legit hand.

[SammyKid11]

Yeah, got your post the first time...but the Manny joke was insanely funny. Nice work.

As for your question, OP...I've heard this said as well (that some people would feel more compelled to fold if you hadn't pushed). But here's the thing:

If you've got <10BB's (which is when all raises should become pushes)...then you're going to the river either way. In fact, with most pushing hands you want to go the river either way. When you raise only part of your stack...yeah, maybe some of the donks will interpret that as "he's only raising a little because he's trying to get me to call, ergo he has a hand, thus I fold." But MORE of the donks will just fold what they would have folded regardless of the size of your raise. However, another group of people will mistakenly assume that they still have fold equity by coming over the top of you...making it more likely that they will play their hand when you want them to muck it.

This is why with <10BB's when you're going to get the money in anyway...you ought to just push.

[45suited]

[ QUOTE ]
Against your typical poor player, does one really have more folding equity by pushing instead of making a standard raise?

[/ QUOTE ]

IMO, yes you do get more FE by pushing.

However, say you do your idea of the raise to 400. If / when you miss the flop, what's your plan? Stop-n-go every time? Surely you have to stop-n-go if you make this play. Just push pre-flop when warranted.

[citanul]

he didn't want more concise, he wanted paragraph breaks.

what you changed about this post makes it infinitedly better.

citanul

[djj6835]

[ QUOTE ]
However, say you do your idea of the raise to 400. If / when you miss the flop, what's your plan? Stop-n-go every time? Surely you have to stop-n-go if you make this play. Just push pre-flop when warranted.


[/ QUOTE ]

I would never actually consider doing this for the reason you just stated. Just curious as to whether others felt that maybe they have a better shot at getting there opponent to fold by making a standard raise even if pushing is clearly correct.

[Scuba Chuck]

probably the most important thing you're missing here is your buy-in.

And another thing. I'd push 22+, A2+ here. The fact that he called just shows that he's a donkey. I could understand calling with A9, but A2 is just foolish.

But dumber things have happened. Not too long ago, I pushed from the SB in a similar situation. My cards were K8. Guy had me covered too. He called me with K3. So, what have we learned? Absolutely nothing. Go back to playing.

[Degen]

my standard raise is 2.5 BB's and this takes down its fair share


o listening to retards is -EV