2 hands in Party 11s

[tlow03]

***** Hand History for Game 2367902308 *****
NL Texas Hold'em $10 Buy-in + $1 Entry Fee Trny:13954924 Level:2 Blinds(15/30) - Friday, July 15, 13:58:44 EDT 2005
Table Table 35133 (Real Money)
Seat 10 is the button
Total number of players : 9
Seat 1: Arkadiy145 ( $1240 )
Seat 2: rileytlow ( $660 )
Seat 4: joshbails ( $1555 )
Seat 5: darkknight40 ( $1005 )
Seat 6: thales1290 ( $335 )
Seat 7: Play77777 ( $590 )
Seat 8: big_lou ( $685 )
Seat 9: snake147 ( $620 )
Seat 10: JL528 ( $1310 )
Trny:13954924 Level:2
Blinds(15/30)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to rileytlow [ Ad Kd ]
joshbails folds.
>You have options at Table 35323 Table!.
darkknight40 is all-In [1005]
thales1290 folds.
Play77777 is all-In [590]
big_lou folds.
snake147 folds.
JL528 folds.
Arkadiy145 folds.
>You have options at Table 35323 Table!.
>You have options at Table 39779 Table!.
Your time bank will become active in less than 20 seconds. If you do not want it to be used, please act now.
rileytlow will be using his time bank for this hand.
all in
>You have options at Table 35323 Table!.
3 way
>You have options at Table 11153 Table!.
rileytlow ????
caller is loose, no read on darknight


hand 2 -- am i too agressive w/ QQ?
Table Table 39779 (Real Money)
Seat 7 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: Gomaha ( $710 )
Seat 2: cdbaker74 ( $680 )
Seat 3: Wavedave5 ( $980 )
Seat 4: WalkingDead4 ( $880 )
Seat 5: rileytlow ( $810 )
Seat 6: LCSIII111 ( $700 )
Seat 7: jerrythekid ( $585 )
Seat 8: Freezy ( $1005 )
Seat 9: stockmaster1 ( $950 )
Seat 10: campo71 ( $700 )
Trny:13954917 Level:2
Blinds(15/30)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to rileytlow [ Qd Qs ]
>You have options at Table 35133 Table!.
campo71 calls [30].
Gomaha folds.
>You have options at Table 35323 Table!.
cdbaker74 folds.
Wavedave5 calls [30].
WalkingDead4 calls [30].
rileytlow raises [125].
LCSIII111 folds.
jerrythekid raises [450].
>You have options at Table 35323 Table!.
Freezy calls [435].
stockmaster1 folds.
>You have options at Table 11153 Table!.
campo71 calls [420].
Wavedave5 calls [420].
WalkingDead4 folds.
rileytlow is all-In [685]
jerrythekid is all-In [135]
Freezy is all-In [555]
campo71 is all-In [250]
Wavedave5 is all-In [530]

[mlagoo]

first hand i fold. you like to be the pusher here, not the caller. it's tough though. the pot is laying you pretty great odds.

second hand... well, all i can say is holy [censored]. that is a hell of a lot of people allin.

personally, i am incapable of finding a fold preflop with QQ at the party 11s, but if there ever was a time, this is it. you raised, were reraised, and the reraiser got THREE smoothcallers. you had no fold equity at that point, so you were just getting in figuring QQ to be the best hand. i'm not so sure of that.

so... fold the stupid thing. you've just got to give at least one of the donks credit for AA or KK. Although with that many chips in the pot... I wonder if you call, even if AA and KK are turned face up?

So shoot. maybe call. I'm torn. I think you're beat, but I wonder if the pot odds, considering every player that flatcalled is almost guaranteed to push here, justify going in as a 4-1 dog.

[bluewilde]

I fold the first hand too, but hoped you guys could give me a comment on my reasoning. I used pokerstove and put villains on a pretty tight range of A K/Q, and most pairs and we have about equal equity. In that case it's a three-way race and you don't have an edge. This why we fold, or is it cause two all-ins screams AA/KK/QQ for one of em? If you loosen their ranges we move up to about 40% equity, could you call looser opponents then? (I called an all-in today with AQ because aggressor had pushed Q8 (this is still lvl 1). He showed KJ and my hand held up. Good or no good?)

[mlagoo]

actually, i wanna change my vote to call.

he said the caller is loose, and he has no read on darkknight. but i've got a read on darkknight. he pushed 1000 chips into a 45 chip pot. hes a donk.

you could easily be shown two hands you dominate here, and given their range, i would say you are given more than sufficient odds here to call without any fold equity needed.

[cadillac1234]

Situation #1 is tricky. You're probably up against a high pair two of which may also counterfeit you. Early on in the tourney and holding an average or better stack I'd probably dump this hand against an unknown entity going all-in. Too early for a weighted against me coin-flip. Against just the loose player it's an easy call+all-in raise to weed out the others. Since you are a below average stack but not crippled, you do need to consider the move all-in if you don't think you can get your $ back cheaply via blind steals in later rounds. If I'm playing a sub-$400-450 stack I'm pushing here.

Situation #2. A raise of 4-5x BB from MP with 3 early callers is probably what I would do hoping to thin out the field. You made the right play you just had too many other people making a bad play.

Alternate play: If there are a lot of calling stations that I know I cannot make fold with a hefty pre-flop raise (2 or more seeing the flop) I'd just call without raising and hope the flop hits me. QQ is not a fun hand with 3 or more players all-in.