On Bubble Aggression

bluewilde · #1 07-13-2005, 04:57 PM

Gradually building confidence with pushing on the bubble, but I was wondering about what you do when people figure you out.

First, one guy today decided if I was gonna push any two, he'd call any two. One time he had 24o, which was great. Unfortunately, however, we ended up in a lot of 60-40 races this way, of which I can only win so many. Can I not push whenever a guy like this is still in the pot?

Second, I don't think there's anything I can do about it, but one guy limped with KK, putting my 97s to shame when I pushed and he called. Is this jsut an occupational hazard, making yourself more open to traps? It just doesn't matter that much in the long run?

lastchance · #2 07-13-2005, 04:59 PM

You tighten up. You let people bust each other. Stealing is good, but at the low-levels, if people will call, stay out of their way. Don't bully big stack, don't push any 2.

DJ Sensei · #3 07-13-2005, 05:01 PM

When people limp on the bubble (particularly mid or small stacks), i'm often very suspicious of a big hand.

As for winding up in 60/40 situations, as a small stack thats about as much as you can ask for (Better than a coinflip for doubling up). And as a big stack, thats great too (Better than a coinflip for knocking somebody out and probably winning it all). Anytime you get to showdown a notably better hand on the bubble, thats great.

The Don · #4 07-13-2005, 05:15 PM

You can't push any 2 into a guy who is calling any two. He is giving up his EV but also killing yours (helping out the other players while you two go at it). You have to tighten up and only push hands which are +EV against a random 2. This situation happens a lot HU.

bluewilde · #5 07-13-2005, 05:26 PM

When you say +EV against a random two, that's saying the same thing as any hand any better than 50% against a random hand, right? When you say tighten up against the maniacally loose players, I understand why, but the reasoning has me leaning to tightening up even more than that. That being said, I've been in this situation a few times where I've tightened up and either double up with a monster hand or am blinded away in the absence of one. So that's probably too tight. Can it really be any better than 50% hand though?

boudge7 · #6 07-13-2005, 05:32 PM

You have to stay aggressive if you trying to win. You could continue to play tight and maybe limp into 3rd, but I said with aggression. Take your 4ths when you get caught, but welcome the 1sts as well.

Insomnia · #7 07-13-2005, 05:43 PM

You dont have to push every hand on the bubble. Occasionally fold your bad hands from the button or SB(even though u have juicy odds), people will notice this and decided your not just raising / pushing with random holdings. Also when people enter the pot before you, with raise or not, you have to tighten up your raising standards.
If some1 is calling you with any two there are a few things you can do. Wait for a good poket(probebly 77 and up) and he will most likely be a huge underdog if hes calling with anything. Otherwise theres little you can do, hes losing money in the long run, so just sit back and hope he busts out other people for you(or busts himself [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]).
~inso

The Don · #8 07-13-2005, 05:53 PM

[ QUOTE ]
When you say +EV against a random two, that's saying the same thing as any hand any better than 50% against a random hand, right? When you say tighten up against the maniacally loose players, I understand why, but the reasoning has me leaning to tightening up even more than that. That being said, I've been in this situation a few times where I've tightened up and either double up with a monster hand or am blinded away in the absence of one. So that's probably too tight. Can it really be any better than 50% hand though?

[/ QUOTE ]

For example, if this player is in the BB and you are in the SB I am pushing a hand like K7o, probably not a hand like Q2o though (depending on the blinds and the other stack sizes).

microbet · #9 07-13-2005, 05:55 PM

"On Aggression"

Good book, by Konrad Lorenz

HonestIago15 · #10 07-13-2005, 05:57 PM

One of the big problems with the "push any 2" mentality is it's completely ignores circumstances. Sure, it may be technically +EV to push in a situation, but what you know the big stack likes to keep people honest, or you're just pushing into a maniac?

That's why I think it's extremely important to understand that extreme bubble aggression is only a guideline, and has its exceptions. Namely,

1) Don't push into someone calling any 2 to keep you honest. very bad news.

2) It's not always a good idea to try to bully the big stack around. He's got chips to spare on your punk ass.

3) Often as the low-middle stack on the bubble it's better to let the tiny stack bust out before you... but not always. This means you really have to pay attention to stack/blind relationships.

This said, it's also important not to use the fact that bubble aggression is a guideline rather than a rule as an excuse not to be pushing hands that are clearly +EV. It's a huge leak.

Fortunately, it's a huge leak that most newer players have, and it plugs up with experience.

GL

Iago