All in hand - Three players with the nuts...

[RickyG]

Hero is MP with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
I come in for a pot sized raise in the .25 game to 1.1 four callers

flop comes
8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
UTG $50): Bet pot,
Me $27: Raise pot (leaves me with $5
CO: $23: All in.
UTG: All in
Me: Call.

now... There was a three way all in. One of the players I knew well enough to know he had the same straight, the other I knew nothing about. I thought I was doing OK EV wise , but it turned out that I had the worst hand after I had checked the odds (22% ev), as I didnt have clubs. Because I only had about $5 left and there was about 7left and there was about 63 in the pot, I called, the turn brought a K the river brought a club, and I lost to a 10 high flush.

I guess the question is, in this situation, is it right to fold because of my lack of outs? (I was drawing to a backdoor flush and one queen and one ten assuming they both had the straight.

Is it one of those situations where you have to push regardless? Any thoughts?

[pokeryogi]

I'm new to this but here it goes:
If your EV was indeed 22%, your odds are 78 to 22, or 3.55 to 1 against. With the pot at $63 and you only have to call $5, your pot odds are 63 to 5, or 12.6 to 1.
By the math, its wrong to fold.

[RickyG]

Rigut, I understand that, but my questions is more of a t heoretical one. I understand that I have to call the last 18, but assume I was last to ace, and there was a bet and a raise before me. If I am able to put at least one other person on the same nut straight, how many out's do I need before I push? If there are two of a suit, do I need two in my hand to call?

This has been the most problematic type of hand for me, and I always feel like I am gambling, which is not the most enjoyable of feelings.

[PorscheNGuns]

If two people push before you, the combination of their hands has you completely freerolled, the worst situation in PLO.(between the two hands you are easily looking at a tie for nut straight plus possibly a set and certainly a flush draw)

-Matt

[EjnarPik]

[ QUOTE ]
This has been the most problematic type of hand for me, and I always feel like I am gambling, which is not the most enjoyable of feelings.

[/ QUOTE ]

Dont play PLO

Ejnar Pik, Southern-Docks

[ogami]

I think its very close to a coin flip, given your read. If my maths is right, (which is a big if), All-in on the flop. Backdoor 4.55%, higher straight(2 outs) 8.79%, you win. A third club hits 36.36% of the time, you get nothing. Presuming the other players have only the made straight and flush draws, then the straight holds up the rest of the time (50.3%), 3 way split.

1/3* 50.3% + 4.55% + 8.79% is 30.1%, and to call a pot size bet and a pot size reraise, you're going to be putting in 30% of the pot.

Trouble is the other players will likely have a couple of outs too, which is going to mess with your odds. You are probably a small underdog, so a fold on balance.

[RickyG]

[ QUOTE ]
Dont play PLO

Ejnar Pik, Southern-Docks

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow.

[autobet]

First, you don't know you are tied until you are down to your last $5, so you quickly call.

Second, you have two free rolls of your own since you have the K which means you will scoop if a non club Q or 10 comes, and you have a backdoor flush draw.

[beernutz]

Eh, what? He has a runner-runner nut flush plus two higher straight redraws in addition to the current nuts. The only way I'm folding here is with a gun to my head.

[ QUOTE ]
If two people push before you, the combination of their hands has you completely freerolled, the worst situation in PLO.(between the two hands you are easily looking at a tie for nut straight plus possibly a set and certainly a flush draw)

-Matt

[/ QUOTE ]

[autobet]

and I would want to know it was loaded and the person holding it to my head wasn't bluffing.