Another annoying BB hand

[Newt_Buggs]

$50+5
Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t15 (10 handed) converter

SB (t985)
Hero (t1000)
UTG (t1000)
UTG+1 (t1270)
UTG+2 (t1215)
MP1 (t825)
MP2 (t830)
MP3 (t910)
CO (t990)
Button (t975)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls t15, UTG+2 calls t15, MP1 calls t15, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP3 calls t15, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Button calls t15, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (t105) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(7 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t100</font>, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 folds, MP1 folds, MP3 calls t100, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises to t200</font>, SB folds, <font color="#CC3333">Hero?</font>

[valenzuela]

why raise postflop [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[Maulik]

I think your PF raise followed by flop raise is making him think, wow, I don't have a jack, but I'm going to fire back at him because its a scary bored.

[Newt_Buggs]

my pf and post flop raise??? i checked in the BB then bet out once, then it got raised and action is back on me

[Maulik]

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my pf and post flop raise??? i checked in the BB then bet out once, then it got raised and action is back on me


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I think your PF raise followed by flop raise is making him think, wow, I don't have a jack, but I'm going to fire back at him because its a scary bored.

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i only read val's post.

i'd fire back or push, i'm not sure how you manage t1000 chips to start, but I think your hand is good

[Newt_Buggs]

I just found this hand frustrating because its hard to tell where I stand here, and I can't find a way to figure out if I'm beat without committing my whole stack. A call and a mini raise is definitely suspicious, but I feel like a pussy laying my hand down here. Calling lets the draws in, and raising is probably only going to get me called when I'm beat.

[beeyjay]

I probably go bust on this hand after this flop. If the button has the J with a better kicker he should raise more to get rid of the flush draw. Based on this raise I would put him on a decent King trying to figure out where he stands and I would push all in. I have been called by both kings and better jacks in situations like this and can't honestly say if its + or - EV to push. Basically I think you have the best hand and the old me would have pushed, but lately I've been leaning towards not trying to get this involved this early as having 900 chips here is just fine because the game is won or lost later on.

[liucipher]

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If the button has the J with a better kicker he should raise more to get rid of the flush draw.

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To me a minraise means one of the following (1) the nuts (KK) (2) one of those funky blocking bets by a nice draw (AhXh) that hopes to get the turn checked to him (3) a king. Personally I feel like probability of the latter two outweigh the first.

I honestly don't know though, since my "experience" is in $6s/$11s and not $55s where the quality of play is most likely higher and the stacks are deeper.

And of course, you never know what kind of silly player thinks QJo IS the nuts despite the heavily coordinated board and in his mind is "trapping" you.

[Newt_Buggs]

[ QUOTE ]
If the button has the J with a better kicker he should raise more to get rid of the flush draw.

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on a side not I've been trying to cope with this same reasoning. Sometimes people do such stupid things that I just can't figure out what kind of horrible logic they are using.
ex: it checks around on an A-rag flop with a flush draw on the board and i bet out on a blank turn trying to buy figuring everyone as week. I get called by the button, who then checks it down with me to show down a pair of A7 for a pair of aces. Why did he not bet his pair of aces?? I don't know, but I feel even stupider then he is when I get myself in these situations

[liucipher]

[ QUOTE ]
ex: it checks around on an A-rag flop with a flush draw on the board and i bet out on a blank turn trying to buy figuring everyone as week. I get called by the button, who then checks it down with me to show down a pair of A7 for a pair of aces. Why did he not bet his pair of aces?? I don't know, but I feel even stupider then he is when I get myself in these situations

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I don't do it myself all that often, since I've become a fold/push monkey, but notice this happens most often when the bluffer is not betting nearly enough. Some people will call small bets, even if the pot is tiny, with low pair to the river. It's annoying/scary/frustrating, but if you're going to try to steal a pot, especially when the blinds are low, you'll often have to bet a lot of your stack (which is why I personally don't bother).