Push 99 w/10xbb at full table?

EasilyFound · #1 07-19-2005, 06:53 AM

This hand arose at a home tourney. First time playing with these guys. Have very little read on the players. 18 players have been reduced to one table of ten. The blinds are 100/200. UTG raises to 400. The next player folds. I have 99 and $2100 in chips. There are mixed stacks behind me. I don't put the raiser on a big pocket pair, but on two over cards. I've gone all-in three times before and not been called. Do you push here or do something else?

I've started playing two-table tourneys. I don't seem to be as successful at these as I have been at a single-table tourney. I often find myself in this kind of spot. Tight play early puts me at a full or near full table w/10xbb or less of chips. At a single-table tourney, the table is short-handed when the blinds reach that level, and I feel more confident about how to play. But with a full table, I am less confident about how to play when I get this kind of medium pair. Do you fold and wait for better spot, or do you make your move here, hoping your opponent folds or that you're in a coinflip situation if he doesn't?

curtains · #2 07-19-2005, 06:58 AM

I would lean towards folding, although your description made some details a little hard to understand.

(Prize structure, your precise position for the hand etc)

Bigwig · #3 07-19-2005, 07:01 AM

I think I would fold to an EP raiser. That being said, a huge majority of home players have absolutely zero concept of table position and players left to act, so this would have to be incredibly read dependent.

EasilyFound · #4 07-19-2005, 07:06 AM

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I would lean towards folding, although your description made some details a little hard to understand.

(Prize structure, your precise position for the hand etc)

[/ QUOTE ]

Buy-in was $100. There were four payouts: 825/500/290/175. I was third to act at 10-player table.

EasilyFound · #5 07-19-2005, 07:09 AM

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I think I would fold to an EP raiser. That being said, a huge majority of home players have absolutely zero concept of table position and players left to act, so this would have to be incredibly read dependent.

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Assume your read is mine: two overcards. I know that you can never be sure about a read, but I'm also curious to know if people advise taking a coinflip type situation in this spot or do you continue to be patient and look for a better spot.

curtains · #6 07-19-2005, 07:17 AM

I wouldnt bother thinking about the read. I would just lean towards folding the hand. Others like to push in this spot, but I'm not one of them.

EasilyFound · #7 07-19-2005, 07:28 AM

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I wouldnt bother thinking about the read. I would just lean towards folding the hand. Others like to push in this spot, but I'm not one of them.

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Is this mostly because of the number of people behind you? And what kind of hand would you need to push in this spot?

Bigwig · #8 07-19-2005, 03:32 PM

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Assume your read is mine: two overcards. I know that you can never be sure about a read

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Well, exactly. You don't read people for 'two overcards.' This kind of poker ESP is a great way to go broke.

"I figured him for a draw, so I shoved my chips in with AK on the turn. Turned out he had top set."

You can't discount the possibility that the raiser is getting tricky with AA or KK. He may also have TT-QQ, and will look at your push as an overbet and think he has you beat. You can't discount the psychology of these home game players.

I remember playing in a home tournament recently where the CO and Button limped, SB completed, and I looked down at A8s. I was positive I had the best hand, and with a stack of 6BB, went ahead and pushed. At least 3 people at the table commented about what a 'huge' bet that was. A couple of them said the same thing earlier about my 3BB raise. I was called by KQ in the SB after he was cajoled into calling by the table (I yelled at them afterward, of course). I made the nut flush, and the guy lamented to me aftwerward: "I figured you were bluffing." Why would he think that? The chances of me being on a pure bluff in that spot are extremely low. Low enough that he can't specifically say: "He's bluffing, I'll call." They talk themselves into the play they 'want' to make.

Anyway, I think you need to put them on a 'range.' And that range includes overpairs. At a full table, I'd just muck 99 and wait. If you had a much smaller stack than 10.5BB I think it would be cool to gamble it up. But not yet. You still have time.

EasilyFound · #9 07-19-2005, 06:48 PM

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Anyway, I think you need to put them on a 'range.' And that range includes overpairs. At a full table, I'd just muck 99 and wait. If you had a much smaller stack than 10.5BB I think it would be cool to gamble it up. But not yet. You still have time.

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Thanks. How low would the stack have to be for you to push at a full table?

Bigwig · #10 07-19-2005, 07:18 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Anyway, I think you need to put them on a 'range.' And that range includes overpairs. At a full table, I'd just muck 99 and wait. If you had a much smaller stack than 10.5BB I think it would be cool to gamble it up. But not yet. You still have time.

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Thanks. How low would the stack have to be for you to push at a full table?

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I think I'd need a feel. Especially for the UTG raiser. Generally I'd say 6BB or less in this particular spot. The way things are now, you could lose both blinds and still have 9BB. That's not bad.