Check-push a "monster" draw

pergesu · #1 07-19-2005, 04:56 AM

Paul Phillips said he likes check-raising all in when he gets a big draw. What's your take?

***** Hand History for Game 2388788011 *****
NL Texas Hold'em $20 Buy-in + $2 Entry Fee Trny:14068892 Level:2 Blinds(15/30) - Tuesday, July 19, 04:52:16 EDT 2005
Table Table 13833 (Real Money)
Seat 2 is the button
Total number of players : 7
Seat 1: jokers07 ( $775 )
Seat 2: MacLooser ( $790 )
Seat 5: tracee111 ( $820 )
Seat 7: frozensanka ( $725 )
Seat 9: jimjam16 ( $1725 )
Seat 10: passpok ( $1285 )
Seat 8: darinmma ( $1880 )
Trny:14068892 Level:2
Blinds(15/30)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to frozensanka [ 5c Tc ]
darinmma folds.
jimjam16 folds.
passpok calls [30].
jokers07 calls [30].
MacLooser folds.
tracee111 calls [15].
frozensanka checks.
** Dealing Flop ** [ 4d, 3c, 2c ]
tracee111 checks.
frozensanka checks.
passpok bets [150].
jokers07 calls [150].
tracee111 folds.
frozensanka is all-In [695]

Nottom · #2 07-19-2005, 05:03 AM

Yeah I'll do this a lot too. In this case I don't really like the overbet from the initial better. It might not matter since you are usually a big favorite here unless someone is holding a bigger flush draw.

lastchance · #3 07-19-2005, 05:13 AM

PP is definitely correct, especially when you're the BB.

curtains · #4 07-19-2005, 05:27 AM

You are oversimplifying Paul Phillips statement. However I agree with your play 100%, but change the situation a little and it could be completely different.

Bigwig · #5 07-19-2005, 07:03 AM

Well, it's not just Paul Phillips who says this. It's the proper play.

Nh.

curtains · #6 07-19-2005, 07:18 AM

Yeah Paul Phillips wrote some thing talking about the situation. What he said was basically pretty obvious, but okay he was eloquent about it.

pergesu · #7 07-19-2005, 07:45 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Well, it's not just Paul Phillips who says this. It's the proper play.

[/ QUOTE ]
I realize that...but normally I would have led into them. But I read that blog post a while back and it came to mind during the hand. So that's why I mentioned it.

[ QUOTE ]
You are oversimplifying Paul Phillips statement. However I agree with your play 100%, but change the situation a little and it could be completely different.

[/ QUOTE ]
What, in particular, do you change to make this completely different?

lastchance · #8 07-19-2005, 07:58 AM

Well, leading out here really, really bites compared to check-raising all-in.

The points to consider are stack-size vs. pot, how many players left to act, likeliness of them to bet, and whether or not you're in the blinds.

45suited · #9 07-19-2005, 08:03 AM

[ QUOTE ]
What, in particular, do you change to make this completely different?

[/ QUOTE ]

Say there's a lot of money in the pot already and you really want to take it down. Sometimes the C/R all-in puts your opponents in a situation where they feel pot committed and even though you have a huge draw, you really don't want to gamble. If I was faced with this hand on the bubble with the other bigstack while there was a shortstack just waiting to bust out who had alread folded, I would lead out rather than go for the C/R all-in.

curtains · #10 07-19-2005, 04:10 PM

[ QUOTE ]

What, in particular, do you change to make this completely different?

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess change your stack size to 300. Or change the pot size to 400. In each of these cases it's correct to push. Or you can make the stacks much much deeper in which case there are a whole new plethora of options available.