Ahhhnold is a liar too?

[MMMMMM]

Yes, Andy, you have expressed this view before.

Where I disagree is when the other wrongs are much greater or more systemic. If it were just one-for-one I would not disagree with you at all. However the opression and executions are endemic in Iran and therefore that upsets me much more. Why? Because it is causing far more people to suffer, that's why.

All else being equal it would upset me more when one of "ours" does something horrible. However when a few of ours do bad things like at Abu Ghraib and in the incident Cyrus posted, that causes nowhere near the level of widespread suffering such as do the oppression of women and dissidents in Iran, and the frequent executions. The differences are vast in numbers and in severity as well.

I can see where the former would upset you more on a "responsibility" basis--but the other must surely upset more on a "humanitarian" basis. To me, the greater humanitarian basis is simply much, much larger in scope, breadth and weight. Since I despise brutal totalitarianism, it follows that I must despise very widespread and severely brutal totalitarianism all the more. And from the point of view of those who are suffering, your argument would be largely besides the point. 100 priests tortured by "them" are suffering a lot more than one priest tortured by "ours" (to flip around a Chomsky parable). So when the weights are so very disparate, I cannot agree with you or Chomsky.

[andyfox]

I have no control over what a judge in Iran does. I do have control over what an American soldier does.

[trippin bily]

andy if you do have control over the american soldier...
then what happened?

[MMMMMM]

"I have no control over what a judge in Iran does. I do have control over what an American soldier does."

So you are placing the responsibility argument over the humanitarian argument--even when the humanitarian cause is much, much greater on one side (by weight of numbers).

I'm sure the people getting imprisoned or executed don't give a damn about the responsibility argument.

I feel a lot sicker in my gut thinking about 10,000 people being arrested and executed, than about 10. Bet their families do, too. And let's not forget the millions living in fear.

Guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this.


P.S. Besides, who said we can't do anything about the Iranian judges. Nearly the whole country of Iran wants to get rid of the mullahs but they can't because of their hired thugs. I'd say wait 'til the ruling mullahs are gathered together in one place then let Zeno have target practice on them with something that requires only one hit to do the job. Good-bye Mad Mullahs, Hello Free Iran.

[andyfox]

I'm also more shocked when an American soldier beats a prisoner to death than when an Irani judge hangs a "criminal." My point is that it's not a blame America first attitude if I post about our shortcomings, nor an ignorance of others' evil, nor an inapt comparison of others' crimes with ours.

Your suggestion, however, about Zeno's target practice deserves consideration.

[andyfox]

I don't have complete control. But we live in a contry where the people have control over their laws and their leaders.

[Dr Wogga]

......but, I believe he at least has the honesty to tell other blacks THEY are the problem - not whitey. However, if you or I told the blacks THEY are the problem, we would be labeled as racists. OTOH, cyrus is, was, and always will be an anti-semite bigot

[Dr Wogga]

....I guess those wonderful ideas coming out of the massachusetts senator are just bowling over Mr & Mrs Joe America - don't you think???

Speaking of massachusetts, isn't it refreshing that in these times of world terror and turmoil - e.g. 100+ children getting murdered by chechen scumbags - and the U.S. fighting overseas, the economy and gas prices surging, that good ole' massachusetts is focused on gay marriages? Boy oh boy Tractor, they sure have their finger on the pulse of the average middle class American in that state - don't you think??? An even better question is whether anyone from massachusetts should be allowed to vote in a national election unless they renouce their residency??? I mean, other than the france or canada, is there a more stupid place?

But, gosh oh gee!!! That's some party the demagogues have. Very, very impressive.

[riverflush]

A LOT of people involved in this post really need to double and triple check the history of socialism in Austria before they go about labelling anybody a liar...especially when attacking someone who, you know, grew up in Austria.

Karl Renner was the (non-elected) Federal President of Austria from 1945-1950. Austria did not have an elected leader until Renner's death in 1951. Renner was a reknowned Marxist author who laid a significant Marxist/Socialist footprint in post-WWII Austria. Socialist Theodor Körner served as President from 1951-1957...and in fact, Austria elected Socialist leaders in every election until 1986. However, the socialist hold on Austria began to wane in 1972 when leaders reluctantly agreed to open up and sign the country's first bi-lateral free-trade agreement.

Anyone who thinks Arnold grew up in a free-trade, freedom-loving, business-friendly country really is just skewing the story to fit their own inherent biases. I don't care what your CNN story says.

Google baby, it's your best friend.

[elwoodblues]

Just out of curiosity, what should the state of Massachusetts have done about the chechen scumbags?

[ QUOTE ]
that good ole' massachusetts is focused on gay marriages?

[/ QUOTE ]

Did you listen to Bush's speech at the convention? It seems like he has a focus on gay marriage as well.