bad fold?

[umdpoker]

as some background, i knew that the checkraiser was overaggressive. i wasn't sure how overaggressive though. i know i should have raised preflop, but i prefer to limp with jj sometimes in ep. also, i wanted to double up more easily if i hit a set.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $1 BB (9 handed)

CO ($17)
Button ($48.50)
SB ($126.95)
BB ($55.05)
UTG ($80.85)
UTG+1 ($49)
MP1 ($57.10)
Hero ($72.25)
MP3 ($45.75)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG calls $1, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls $1, Hero calls $1, MP3 folds, CO calls $1, Button calls $1, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: ($7) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(7 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, MP1 checks, <font color="CC3333">Hero bets $7</font>, CO calls $7, Button folds, <font color="CC3333">SB raises to $20</font>, BB folds, UTG folds, MP1 folds, Hero folds, CO calls $9 (All-In).

Turn: ($50) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(2 players, 1 all-in)</font>

River: ($50) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(2 players, 1 all-in)</font>

Final Pot: $50

[SkippingGoat]

I don't think this is a bad fold, though you may be ahead. SB has you covered so you have a lot to worry about on future streets. I have a hard time imagining a check-raise like this with something like A8 though he could have 99 or TT, be checkraising a strong draw (perhaps a straight+flush draw), or even have the made straight and hope to knock out flush draws. Two pair is also a completely plausible here. Given that he's in the blind it's almost impossible to put him on a hand. I just wave goodbye to my $7 and save the remaining $65. If SB was all-in I'd almost certainly make the call.

[Kirkrrr]

No, he more than likely had you. He check-raised the pot (7+7+7), which I haven't seen to be a bluff very often. Also, from the SB, he could have anything. A call is 25% of your stack, putting you close to pot-commitment territory with JJ overpair. So there's a lot of reasons to be done with this hand.

Also, why would you raise pre-flop with JJ? When you get called, there's going to be an overcard on the flop more than 70% of the time ruining your hand. I think it's far more profitable to limp in and bet into the raiser (if there is one) when you get your set, as you'll usually take them for their entire stack. I might be missing something here but I could never understand why raise pre-flop from an early position with a mid pocket pair, except to possibly mix up your play.

Kirk R.

[SkippingGoat]

Limp is fine. If my calculations arent in error, an overcard only flops to jacks 57% of the time (less if your opponent is holding some of these overcards).

[schwza]

[ QUOTE ]
No, he more than likely had you. He check-raised the pot (7+7+7),

[/ QUOTE ]

this is mostly semantic, but that's not actually check-raising the pot. to check-raise the pot would be to make a raise of 7 (the bet to you) plus $28 (the pot after the 7 is matched) for a total of 35.

i think folding here is the right play. the SB is check-raising not just you, but also the CO who is nearly all-in. unless the SB is a bad player, this should be a pretty indication that the SB doesn't mind getting called.

you can't really call though, because pretty much any card that comes is a scare card. and even if you have the best hand now, the all-in CO could easily draw out on you. and you can't really raise because the SB will only call you with a good made hand, meaning one that's probably better than yours. in the best case, if you raise you'll collect an $11 side pot and then have the privelege of hoping that your hand holds up against 5 or 9 outs twice. and that's the best case.

i'd fold. if your stack were significantly smaller, or if the SB were a true maniac, i'd raise.

[Garland]

It's not a bad fold because you don't want to go broke in an unraised pot. You could be drawing very slim to a made straight.

Garland

[MisterKing]

[ QUOTE ]
It's not a bad fold because you don't want to go broke in an unraised pot. You could be drawing very slim to a made straight.

Garland

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly. I'm guessing the SB made his straight on the flop or turn, or at a minimum had two pair and was betting large to protect against the flush draw?