Can I Fold This Preflop?

[GTSamIAm]

The original raiser is super weak-tight. Just calls with very strong hands if the board is at all scary of anything bigger. He doesn't raise many hands. The 3-bettor just sat down, I don't have any reads. I'm assuming he doesn't have the weak-tight read on the original raiser. I was tempted to fold preflop not being suited.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 raises</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero caps</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls, MP3 calls.

Flop: (13 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 bets</font>, MP3 calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (8 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG+1 calls, MP3 folds.

River: (10 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG+1 calls.

Final Pot: 12 BB

[@bsolute_luck]

super-weak tight? meaning only AA-KK? yeah i'd fold, but i never have that good of a read, but if it's close i'd simply complete in SB.

what i don't get then is if you were considering folding preflop, why you would bet out that turn? i guess by your question he stopped betting his AA fearing trips Tens?

i'll check/call down probably. you pick up the nut flush draw on the turn and the pot is too big by the river IMO to give up assuming the worst.

[Fantam]

I would have felt inclined to call this from the SB instead of capping. I would not have folded, because you have a small discount on the bet you have to call and you might be playing against AQ or pocket pairs other than AA or KK.

Part of the reason I would not cap preflop, is because you will have poor position postflop. Also by just calling, you also disguise your hand should an A or K fall on the flop. Then you can try to check/raise the original preflop raisers.

I think it may even have been worth attempting a check/raise on the turn against UTG when you paired the K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] and picked up the nut flush draw.

Nice hand.

[deception5]

I think I would just call preflop. You will gain some information when you see if the original raiser caps or not and your cap may or may not be for value.

I think I would prefer check/calling the turn as MP3 likely has very few outs if behind and may think he is splitting if an ace shows up on the river with AQ/AJ. When you lead out and UTG+1 calls, he has to fold. But he might call another UTG+1 bet thinking he has more outs (AQ/AJ are drawing to 3 outs, QQ/JJ are drawing to 2).

Edit: Betting the turn is viable if you think this player is weak/tight enough to laydown AA because he's scared of a flush.

[deception5]

[ QUOTE ]
I think it may even have been worth attempting a check/raise on the turn against UTG when you paired the K and picked up the nut flush draw.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually I think the bet here accomplishes the same thing. If UTG+1 didn't lay down to this bet I doubt he'll laydown to a c/r with more money in the pot.

[DeathDonkey]

Where do we want him to go? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

-DeathDonkey

[deception5]

If he has aces we'd like him to fold... although it's extremely unlikely which is why I prefer check/call.

[kiffl]

If your read is really that good just smooth call preflop, then I would of folded the flop here.

[@bsolute_luck]

[ QUOTE ]
If your read is really that good just smooth call preflop, then I would of folded the flop here.

[/ QUOTE ]

hmm...i don't think i'm folding that flop, but maybe i'm overvaluing our hand.

if we don't cap and flop play is the same, we're getting 11:1 on our call. i give us ~3 outs for our UI overcards, .5 for our double inside straight draw, plus 1.5 for our BDFD= 5 outs. needing 9:1 to call closing the action, i think i'm peeling here.

[Eeegah]

If he's as truly weak-tight as you say he is then sure.

This is one reason why every so often I'll take a look though my PT database to see what premium hands opponents are limping or raising with: knowing this beforehand can really help your reads. One guy in particular has a PFR or zero after 200 hands. He's limped AKs, KK, QQ, JJ. He hasn't been dealt AA in my presense though; I've promised myself that I'd even throw away Queens or even Kings if he ever raises in front of me.

As an aside, this thread might serve as a bit of a warning to me, as I equate AKo with AKs preflop, and will 3-bet/cap with either regardless of circumstance. Maybe I should tone it down a bit.