too tight early in STT?

[AleoMagus]

[ QUOTE ]
say i bet 80 into the T90 pot, it's folded to a MP limper, who makes it 240. button and SB fold to me. now what?

[/ QUOTE ]

then... I fold

Regards
Brad S

[ericlambi]

Why did you check? You should bet this flop 100% of the time, at least the pot, probably a little more.

Folding was a bad move. You should have called or raised, preferably raise.

[schwza]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
say i bet 80 into the T90 pot, it's folded to a MP limper, who makes it 240. button and SB fold to me. now what?

[/ QUOTE ]

then... I fold

Regards
Brad S

[/ QUOTE ]

cool... thanks a lot for the feedback.

[vindikation]

Well I just got this hand in the BB A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Nine people in the $10 SnG $15/$30 blinds. So I tried to play it like a lot of people here said.

4 people limped in and I raised to $100.

2 middle guys fold and the button calls.

Flop: Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

I bet $150, button calls

Turn: 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

I bet $250, button calls

River: 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

I check, button goes All In, I fold and lose a majority of my stack.

Not exactly the same hand, but this shows how I got in trouble raising and betting in the BB. How would you have played this hand? (I probably should have checked on the Turn and folded to a bet)

[david050173]

[ QUOTE ]
Well I just got this hand in the BB A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Nine people in the $10 SnG $15/$30 blinds. So I tried to play it like a lot of people here said.

4 people limped in and I raised to $100.

2 middle guys fold and the button calls.

Flop: Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

I bet $150, button calls

Turn: 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

I bet $250, button calls

River: 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

I check, button goes All In, I fold and lose a majority of my stack.

Not exactly the same hand, but this shows how I got in trouble raising and betting in the BB. How would you have played this hand? (I probably should have checked on the Turn and folded to a bet)

[/ QUOTE ]

You have to raise at least the pot preflop. A 3xBB bet when the pot is 5xBB isn't going to get everyone to fold. If you think you don't want to risk that many chips at this point with AQs, you can limp and hope you get a good flop. Just remember that in an unraised,multiways pot you have to be very carefull ( 2 pair, small trips, and every straight/flush draw imaginable).

You got a hideous flop ( you have 2nd pair with a flush and straight already out there) and pretty much no redraws. Montone flops are hard to play at since you can end up bluffing into the nuts (or a made flush) way too often. Early in the SNG, I would write off my losses.

[AleoMagus]

You raised preflop out of position, which some did recommend, but which is wrong in my opinion. In fact, I think it's pretty clear cut this early in the SNG. It's a very bad idea.

On the flop, you have nothing like the previous example. You have second pair, with a three flush and straight possibilities on the board. This is a check/fold hand.

AQ and even AQs are highly overrated hands in the early rounds of a SNG. You really need to have position to play these hands, if you play them at all.

Regards
Brad S

[Unarmed]

Alright, I seem to have the complete opposite line than some very respected posters. You're in the BB/SB, how many limpers before you DON'T raise AQ PF here? Assume you don't raise PF, and an A or Q falls with a non-connected/two-pair board, are you leading into any number of opponents?

General questions.... I know...

[schwah]

if you think you are probably behind, then calling the flop is horrible

[ilya]

[ QUOTE ]

Betting the flop is the right play. Charge the draws, and with the pot as small as it is you will still be able to get away from a raise.


[/ QUOTE ]

The thing I really like about this line is that it makes your decision pretty easy compared to checking & facing a bet from one of the limpers.

On the other hand...is this line actually +EV over check/folding? And if it is with this many limpers, how many more limpers must there be before the balance swings the other way?

[AleoMagus]

I would not raise AQ from the blinds on level 1 with any number of limpers.

I would lead out with a roughly pot sized bet if an A or Q falls (when Q is top pair) against any number of opponents that I'd usually see. I suppose if I had all 9 opponents in the pot, I might have to think about this, but more likely it's only going to be 2-5 opponents and I have to think my top pair is good. If I am played back at, then it's easy to let go of and still doesn't cost me nearly as much as if I had raised preflop.

And don't get me wrong, I do believe that AQ is the best hand preflop (or a very small underdog to a pair) about 99% of the time. It is for this reason that if the same hand was played on level 4 or 5, I'd probably push it against limpers. On level 1 however, you can't push this just to win a bunch of 15 chip bets. So, a smaller raise might still bring even a few callers, and after that, you are totally out of position and it's easy to get outplayed. In NL, position is as important as cards.

I'd sooner raise J9s from the button here than AQ from the blinds (though I'm not doing that either).

Anyone else do this differently? This is standard isn't it?

Regards
Brad S