Two Plus Two Older Archives  

Go Back   Two Plus Two Older Archives > 2+2 Communities > Other Other Topics
FAQ Community Calendar Today's Posts Search

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 03-18-2003, 07:07 AM
Chris Alger Chris Alger is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 1,160
Default Letter from Rachel

Gaza

"You asked me about non-violent resistance.

When that explosive detonated yesterday it broke all the windows in the family's house. I was in the process of being served tea and playing with the two small babies. I'm having a hard time right now. Just feel sick to my stomach a lot from being doted on all the time, very sweetly, by people who are facing doom. I know that from the United States, it all sounds like hyperbole. Honestly, a lot of the time the sheer kindness of the people here, coupled with the overwhelming evidence of the wilful destruction of their lives, makes it seem unreal to me. I really can't believe that something like this can happen in the world without a bigger outcry about it. It really hurts me, again, like it has hurt me in the past, to witness how awful we can allow the world to be. I felt after talking to you that maybe you didn't completely believe me. I think it's actually good if you don't, because I do believe pretty much above all else in the importance of independent critical thinking. And I also realise that with you I'm much less careful than usual about trying to source every assertion that I make. A lot of the reason for that is I know that you actually do go and do your own research. But it makes me worry about the job I'm doing. All of the situation that I tried to enumerate above - and a lot of other things - constitutes a somewhat gradual - often hidden, but nevertheless massive - removal and destruction of the ability of a particular group of people to survive. This is what I am seeing here. The assassinations, rocket attacks and shooting of children are atrocities - but in focusing on them I'm terrified of missing their context. The vast majority of people here - even if they had the economic means to escape, even if they actually wanted to give up resisting on their land and just leave (which appears to be maybe the less nefarious of Sharon's possible goals), can't leave. Because they can't even get into Israel to apply for visas, and because their destination countries won't let them in (both our country and Arab countries). So I think when all means of survival is cut off in a pen (Gaza) which people can't get out of, I think that qualifies as genocide. Even if they could get out, I think it would still qualify as genocide. Maybe you could look up the definition of genocide according to international law. I don't remember it right now. I'm going to get better at illustrating this, hopefully. I don't like to use those charged words. I think you know this about me. I really value words. I really try to illustrate and let people draw their own conclusions."

Rachel Corrie, 23 years old, 2/28/03

Murdered by Israeli occupation forces trying to prevent an illegal house demolition, 3/16/03

RIP

Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 03-18-2003, 07:17 AM
adios adios is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 2,298
Default Re: Letter from Rachel

How about posting something from the families of those killed by one of the suicide bombers. You wouldn't want to be viewed as nothing but a "propaganda machine" would you?
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 03-18-2003, 07:28 AM
nicky g nicky g is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: London, UK - but I\'m Irish!
Posts: 1,905
Default Re: Letter from Rachel

The suicide bombings are carried out by terrorists that are avowed enemies of the US who are rightly condemened and pursued throughout the world. This American girl was killed by a US ally, by a US-supplied bulldozer, paid for by the biggest US foreign aid grant in the world. Furthermore the Israelis have killed vastly more civilians than the suicide bombers, and live in an otherwise free and normal society of their own choosing, while the Palestinians are condemened to live in a prison camp whose borders are perpetually shrinking, and walls collapsing. There are therefore good reasons for focusing more on the plight of the Palestinians and the illegal actions of Israel than on the suicide bombings, which already get vast amonts of coverage. I would offer my sympathy to victims of both sides if I thought any of them read this.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 03-18-2003, 08:25 AM
John Cole John Cole is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Mass/Rhode Island
Posts: 1,083
Default Re: Letter from Rachel

I really value words.

For me, heartbreaking.

John
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 03-18-2003, 08:48 AM
scalf scalf is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: south carolina, usa
Posts: 2,120
Default Re: Letter from Rachel..definiyions...

[img]/forums/images/icons/blush.gif[/img] what is the definition of : a. just war; b. legal military interaction; c. genocide???

all just categories of inhumanity; where we cease being the spiritual beings having a human experience; and relapse to animals...

jmho..gl all..this thursday, man...gl [img]/forums/images/icons/crazy.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/icons/frown.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/icons/spade.gif[/img]
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 03-18-2003, 09:45 AM
Easy E Easy E is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 1,449
Default What is the source of this?

Chris, where did this come from?
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 03-18-2003, 11:08 AM
adios adios is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 2,298
Default Re: Letter from Rachel

"I would offer my sympathy to victims of both sides if I thought any of them read this."

I would too but I would bet a lot of money that if I posted something like this from a family member of a victim of a suicide bombing that you'd be griping about a double standard as would Chris.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 03-18-2003, 11:27 AM
Chris Alger Chris Alger is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 1,160
Default Re: What is the source of this?

The Guardian (UK)
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 03-18-2003, 11:44 AM
nicky g nicky g is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: London, UK - but I\'m Irish!
Posts: 1,905
Default Re: Letter from Rachel

What would be the point in posting something like this about the victim of a suicide bomber? Noone is in disagreement that the suicide bombings are outrages, and wrong. We seem to be in total disagreement about the morality of the Israeli army's actions, on the other hand. Chris posted this, I assume, to show you what the supposed great democracy, and our ally, Israel, gets up to, and how it treats people. The suicide bombers aren't anyone's ally here and noone views them favourably.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 03-18-2003, 12:05 PM
MMMMMM MMMMMM is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 4,103
Default Re: Letter from Rachel

It's tragic indeed.

Maybe there should be some world pressure on Jordan to admit those Palestinians who wish to go to Jordan (after all, didn't Jordan steal some of their partitioned land anyway?). It is disturbing to think that some of these people wish to leave and can't.

An "illegal demolition of a house"--was it the house of a terrorist or suicide bomber? IMO suicide bombers and the families which support them in that endeavor quite possibly should have their homes bulldozed. Maybe that shouldn't be illegal (if it is). Suicide bombing of unrelated innocents is not something which is conditionally OK.

Rachel was obviously a thoughtful and compassionate person which makes this all the more tragic IMO. However let's not forget that deciding to be a human shield does carry some inherent risks.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:06 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.