Flop set, Ace hits turn, what next??

[Wes ManTooth]

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ps: i didn't make it as clear as it could be, but the strategy for flopping a set on a non-scary board clearly varies greatly based on preflop action, position, stack depths, and number of opponents, and other stuff.

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Thanks for all the comments, this is partly what i was putting into consideration.

I will continue with the hand that played out...
Since I did check call the flop and since an Ace hit the turn...
(I know you may not like this) but I decided to check the turn. I was hoping that villian, will bet out again, But I also planned ahead of MAYBE even checking on whatever came on the river, regardless if he bet or folded. Therefore giving the villian two chances to attempt to steal the pot.

Villian decided check the turn.

River was the Queen (Hearts) so the backdoor flush draw got there and also put up straight possiblities. From his flop bet I put him on he either had an overpair and/or top pair or 2 pair. So I was not worried about him having a straight. Though the flush did get there I was not concerned about this either, for a number of reasons, which would be a long discussion in its self (I will try not to go off topic).

Before I post the final results, I am curious on what you would now do?
On the river would you check? bet? how much would you bet even though the pot size is 110 and unfortunately relatively small?

Any comments?

[zambonidrivr]

i would lead with a bet that does not allow some complete shmuck to draw to a flush

[Wes ManTooth]

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i would lead with a bet that does not allow some complete shmuck to draw to a flush

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Assumed that you did check the turn, what play would you take if you were first to act on the river and the draw did hit??
refer to my previous post.

Any comments are welcomed and appreciated.
Thanks again

[nokona13]

Curtains, I also tend to hate slowplaying so much, unless you have quads with like 5 to act after you or something. In an effort to maintain consistency with my continuation bets and TPTK bets I generally lead sets, but I think maybe I've been losing value in some situations. What kind of situation (# left to act after you, their stack sizes, your stack size) would you ever try say a check/call flop, lead turn line? Obviously if you can check/raise all in without an overbet against an aggressive opponent, that's a good idea. But any other less obvious situations. Do you ever resort to the check/call flop check/raise turn line?

[citanul]

this is an incredibly vague question. for that, i hate you.

to answer your question though:

there's lots of reasons to go with a line like the one you described. one would be because another player is the aggressor in the pot with several opponents. large pots, etc. on a board that is very likely to have hit someone, but not necessarilly in a draw manner, i'd check to a crowd. when the pot is already big, basically, or you have really good reasons to believe it's the best way to get money in there. etc, etc, etc.

yah, that's the problem with vague questions.

seeking to confine this to like, please provide me a chart of relevent numbers so i can play from that, is a bad way of going about things.

citanul

[nokona13]

Okay, for an example, say normal 800 chip game on Party, three limpers and you check the BB with 77. Flop comes Q74r. You don't read any of your opponents as very aggressive. Is this an obvious lead for say 3/4 of the pot? Or maybe a check-call because there's three left who came in voluntarily? Say you lead for 3/4 pot and get a call from MP. Turn is T, putting two to a flush on board, not of the same suit as queen. Say you've both got 8-10 times the pot left. Do you lead again, hoping AQ/KQ thinks he's still good, or villian has QT? Try a semi-transparent c/r that probably stops action?

[wh1t3bread]

Since I smell a bad beat it sucks that he had KJ.

P.S. Don't slow play flopped sets.

[AliasMrJones]

Bet the flop, something in the 30-40 range and lead the turn with a similar size bet relative to the pot. With that many people, you're likely to get raised by someone with T-good kicker on the flop and if not, it will be hard for someone to put you on an A on the turn and you may get someone with an A raising you on the turn. The way you played it I think it is now going to be hard to make a lot of money most of the time.

Given the way you played it I think I'd check the turn and hope he bets, then check-raise. If the checks the turn, bet something in the 50 range and hope he calls.

[curtains]

I want to bet now because I see no assurance that anyone else will bet. If there was a preflop raiser from late position, checking seems better to me, although I still might bet sometimes.
Also I want to start building the pot on the flop, as this is where people are most apt to gamble with hands like top pair. Once the turn comes they often play their hands more cautiously IMO, and now you hvae only two streets to extract bets from them instead of three, in a situation where your bets will get exponentially higher. So if some bozo has top pair on the flop, you might make like 60 on the flop, 150 on the turn and 300 on the river. If you check the flop and then just bet turn+river against this guy, you might just make 60+150.

Of course good things can happen from checking too (Like someone might bet the flop), but I find that that betting out in spots like this against poor players is usually much more profitable than checking. Also a check raise shows immense strength whereas a normal bet doesn't. They will call with weaker hands IMO if you bet out as opposed to check raising. If someone does bet, I think check calling is insane. Check calling for that 30 chip bet is pretty poor strategy.

Your opponent has shown that he isnt that much in love with his hand, people give huge amount of respect to turn check raises, thus meaning he might toss a hand that he would have played with you on the flop, and your opponent may feel no desire to fire away again once he got a flop caller. If you put your opponent on something like top pair, you absolutely must try to get value from him immediately.

All of this applies to games where the opponents are weaker, like $109 or $55 buyin sit and gos and lower. I would bet this flop in basically every game, but I think it's absolutely clear against weak opponents. There are also some good things about betting out against slightly stronger opponents as they often read your flop bet for weakness, and discount super strong hands like sets because they expect that you would have "slowplayed" them.

(Also note that I'm pretty sure you got the pot size wrong for the flop...it should be 75, not 50.)

[Matt R.]

I know everyone so far is advocating leading on the flop, but I personally prefer a check/call here as you did. When the flop comes 10 high and is a rainbow, I prefer to give a free card to the multiple players in the pot hoping they'll catch an A, K, or maybe 2 pair (in which case you can usually get their stack if they catch 2 pair). I like leading out in a mult-way pot if an A or K is on the flop, hoping for a raise or at least multiple callers to build the pot. I doubt leading out here would net more chips because you'd likely get everyone to fold except MP1, and then when you bet that turn he'll fold. You just got unlucky here in the sense that no one caught anything they were willing to pay you off with.