JJ, waste of a BB?

BigEndian · #1 11-27-2005, 10:35 PM

Villain here is a TAG and plays at least 4 tables. I suspect they are a 2+2er but I don't know them. So, figure one of us with aggression #s typical of us.

Does anyone think this line is a waste of a BB? I like it and believe it has good metagame value as well. Or you might see it as it lines people up to take shots at me.

Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (9 max, 8 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: BigEndian is Button with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
2 folds, MP1 raises, 2 folds, BigEndian 3-bets, 2 folds, MP1 caps, BigEndian calls.

Flop: (9.50 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
MP1 bets, BigEndian raises, MP1 3-bets, BigEndian folds.

Final Pot: 7.25 BB

- Jim

hobbsmann · #2 11-27-2005, 10:41 PM

I really don't like this as you beat nothing this guy caps with. Moreover, you have zero FE against those hands and thus flop raise = spewing IMO.

gh9801 · #3 11-27-2005, 10:46 PM

Given that Villain is TAG and probably knows you are TAG too, and also that Villain is relatively early in position I'd either fold here or just call the flop and re-evaluate on the turn (you have backdoor draws), while keeping your hand undefined and seeing what Villain does on the turn. But I'd lean towards folding the flop here as you aren't really beating anything in Villain's preflop capping range.

damaniac · #4 11-27-2005, 11:59 PM

[ QUOTE ]
just call the flop and re-evaluate on the turn (you have backdoor draws)

[/ QUOTE ]

Probably just enough equity to do this, although even when we hit the "easy outs", the Jacks, we risk losing a ton to a QQ/KK or give a redraw to AK/AQ, so that makes it thinner. Still, 10.5:1 with some draws and a chance he might check AQ or something once in awhile on the big street lean me towards calling.

DeeJ · #5 11-28-2005, 12:00 PM

I can't see him being unable to beat a pair of queens having capped preflop. I'd call the flop and fold the turn unimproved (looking for a draw or a miracle). You have 6 cards you'd like to see, but if you hit the Jack you still might be losing to QQ/KK. In a shorterhanded game, your line would be better I think. 8-handed you have to give him credit for something.

sfer · #6 11-28-2005, 01:13 PM

I think raising the flop intending to fold to a 3-bet is very bad from a metagame perspective. I think this flop is a simple call to see (1) if you pick up a spade or a T or a J on the turn and (2) if checks the turn either because he has JJ/TT/AQ or because he's dumb and intends to checkraise. You have pretty decent suckout equity against his range on this flop and I think your line basically hands it to him.

mscags · #7 11-28-2005, 01:42 PM

I think it is a waste of a BB myself. What capping hands are you ahead of here? You might get the other JJ to fold, but that wont happen nearly enough to make this worth it. A TAG probably isnt capping 99 or TT here. I would fold to the first bet and wait for a better chance.

Scags