Situation I think I get wrong every time

[Guy McSucker]

Mid-tournament situation.

You have QQ, blinds are, oh I don't know, 100-200, and you open for 800. The BB calls, leaving himself 2000 chips. You have him covered, just.

Flop comes J-J-4 with two hearts. Let's suppose your queens are black. He checks. What do you do and why?

Would you play it differently if you had AA? And again, why?

Assume this guy is your generic opponent, and the average stack is 4k or so.

Guy.

[Bluff1]

Hello Guy

I move in here. I would think what could he call my raise with? If he called it with aj then I would just have to pay him off on this flop. I might be less inclined to move in if it were an idoit who would call my raise with j9 or jt. I would play AA the same way.

[rbenuck4]

The problem with this hand is it is one of those situations where you are either going to win a small pot or lose a huge one. If you go all in, he has an extremely easy decision. If he has a jack, he is going to call. If he has a flush draw, well then it depends upon what odds he is getting. In this case, there is 1600 + 2000 in the pot for him, giving him 3.6 to 2 to call this. He's gotta figure a couple of his outs my be tainted (figuring you for a pair or a J), but his odds are decent enough to call this. On the other hand, if he has nothing, you win right then and there.

The other problem is you can't make a feeler bet (another 800 will basically pot commit you, and anything less won't get any respect). I still say you gotta push your luck and put him to the test. If he does have a J, well then you are going to pay him off. If he has a heart draw, you have to make him pay to get his flush.

As far as aces, this just makes my decision a little easier, becuase it eliminates the worries that he called my raise preflop with KK or AA. I would still play it the same way.

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

Tough one. I think most players would bet a jack with the flush draw on the board. Calling the raise from the BB w/AK is also very possible. AA or KK would have put me all-in preflop. I think I push the rest of my chips in here.

[Martin Aigner]

rbenicuk,

[ QUOTE ]
The problem with this hand is it is one of those situations where you are either going to win a small pot or lose a huge one

[/ QUOTE ]

Not quite. The pot is already 1600 big,while the other player and the poster have about 2000 each left. Therefore winning this pot right now can´t be too bad.

My play would be all in and pray.

Best regards

Martin Aigner

[William]

When you raise with QQ and are called, what are you hoping for? To hit a Q of course, but the very next best is a flop with undercards. That is what you got here, so you should be happy. If you check, the free card could be an overcard, a third heart, a small card that hits his small PP (if he has one) Even if he has completely missed the flop, he could sense fear in you and move in. You're probably going to call anyway, so no need to give the free card.
i don't think you have to fear AA or KK. He would probably have made it clear pre-flop. And if he has a J, bad luck, you need a certified cristal ball to come alive from the situation anyway.
Remember there are only 2 J's left and no hand including a J would normally call your pre-flop raise (except JJ of course). You have got the flop you were hoping for, act on it.
Holding AA, my play would be just the same.

Take care,
William

[thomastem]

Doesn't a typical opponent reraise with A-A or K-K? J-J is very unlikely that only leaves A-J (or possibly K-J if he thought you were stealing) If he has 3 jacks why risk giving you a free card with 2 hearts on the board?

I get my money in here.

[jw2k]

It may be a leak in my game, but I push in every time here against a generic ($10-$20 buyin) opponent. The pot is too big, and my stack is getting short enough that it's time to take some chances. There's not enough information to decide that he's in there with a J, an A-high flush draw which wants to see a cheap turn, or a slow-played big pair. While I think a J is possible (AJ in particular), he did call off 1/4 of his stack preflop. This play is possible for a generic player (in my expierence), but 99 and TT as well as A9s and KQs are also possible holdings. The flush draw is likely to try to pick up the pot with an allin bet here. And, if he slow played a big pair (and I think this is unlikely since he offered me a free card), then he's going to have to ask himself if I raised preflop with AJ when I push my stack in.

If I check behind, it might induce a bluff on the turn from a hand (like TT) that I can beat. But there are 15 cards which I don't want to see out there (any heart, any overcard). I'd rather take my shot on the flop.

Just my T0.02 (which is probably what I have left when he flips over 9Jo).
jw2k

[Guy McSucker]

Thanks for your replies so far.

Does anything change if the flush draw isn't there? I am still interested in the difference for you between QQ and AA too.

Starting to think maybe I don't get this wrong so often after all...

Guy.

[jw2k]

Again let me preface this with a warning: while my multitable results since I started playing them in October are well in the black at ($10+1 and $20+2 pokerstars), they may not be statistically significant.

Having AcAs or KcKs doesn't change my play of the hand here.
If there are no flush or straight draws, AND I've got AA or KK here, then I might be more inclined to check behind and induce a bluff, continuing this play if he checks to me on a safe (i.e. no new draws) turn card. But it can't be a big mistake to try to take down a pot which increases your stack by 80% here, even if you thought your opponent would push in with a weaker hand on the turn.

Of course, my judgement may be clouded here by a tourney where I tried this play, my opponent spiked his set/boat on the turn and I called. The next hand I picked up KK and lost when I got four callers of my 2xBB allin.

jw