QQ overpair multiway out of position

[ilya]

Should I check this flop?

***** Hand History for Game 1247214961 *****
15/30 TourneyTexasHTGameTable (NL) (Tournament 7583710) - Wed Dec 01 20:00:11 EST 2004
Table Table 14014 (Real Money) -- Seat 8 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: john_utah (800)
Seat 2: mrzarembsky (800)
Seat 3: lucius3sod (960)
Seat 4: gerbdiv (720)
Seat 5: vanisherx (750)
Seat 6: samboneous (800)
Seat 7: mivse (790)
Seat 8: Suka04 (740)
Seat 9: dfilmer (840)
Seat 10: tfriedlich (800)
dfilmer posts small blind (10)
tfriedlich posts big blind (15)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to mrzarembsky [ Qd, Qs ]
john_utah folds.
mrzarembsky raises (60) to 60
lucius3sod folds.
gerbdiv calls (60)
vanisherx folds.
samboneous folds.
mivse calls (60)
Suka04 calls (60)
dfilmer calls (50)
tfriedlich folds.
** Dealing Flop ** : [ 8c, Tc, 2h ]
dfilmer checks.

I bet 400 thinking I would fold if there were 3 all-ins behind me, or perhaps if there were 2 all-ins including a checkraise from the small blind.
I figured that if there were 2 all-ins not including the SB, I was likely behind but should call because of the size of the pot and people's tendencies to show hands like A8o.

Should I play more passively out of position with this many opponents?

[ChrisV]

I'd check, but I'm not folding a ragged flop like that unless something extraordinary happens. I'm checking because I want to checkraise allin. Betting 400 and folding is a bad, bad idea. The size of the pot is such that if you make a reasonable bet you're going to be pot committed. I'd rather check, usually someone will bet like 200 and THEN i can slam the lot in.

[eastbay]

What the heck is this talk of folding? You're trying to get as much in the pot as possible here. If all your chips don't go in here, you did something wrong.

Check if you expect to get more in that way.

eastbay

[ilya]

Are you sure that betting 400 and folding after 3 all-ins would be so crazy? Yes, I would be getting about 7:1 from the pot, but I think even at the $20s somebody would almost always have a set/overpair to QQ. Especially with this flop, which matches the PPs people love to call-but-not-reraise with preflop. And I'm only 12% against a set, 11% against AA-KK.

[eastbay]

[ QUOTE ]
Are you sure that betting 400 and folding after 3 all-ins would be so crazy?

[/ QUOTE ]

Only slightly.

But it'd be as profitable to worry about what you'd do if you spontaneously combusted while in this hand.

eastbay

[ilya]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Are you sure that betting 400 and folding after 3 all-ins would be so crazy?

[/ QUOTE ]

Only slightly.

But it'd be as profitable to worry about what you'd do if you spontaneously combusted while in this hand.

eastbay

[/ QUOTE ]

Damn....

[eastbay]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Are you sure that betting 400 and folding after 3 all-ins would be so crazy?

[/ QUOTE ]

Only slightly.

But it'd be as profitable to worry about what you'd do if you spontaneously combusted while in this hand.

eastbay

[/ QUOTE ]

Damn....

[/ QUOTE ]

My point is that if you're gonna post about flopping rags with QQ in a $20+2, the word "fold" should not appear in the post. It should focus on maximum extraction plays. That's where the value is here, not in how to get out under rare circumstances.

eastbay

[morgan180]

Mr. Z -

I gotta agree with the rest of the gang - the only reason I'd check here is to trap as many chips in the middle with mine as possible.

You'll see an all-in here from a wide range of hands, not just KK/AA. You'd see it from JJ, AT and weaker xT hands.

I think a good chunk of people will check/call a flopped set so if you get an all-in behind you I think most of the time you'll be ahead.

Further, to check I would have to be certain there would be a bet behind me that I could come back over the top to make the club draw very expensive.

JMHO

[captZEEbo1]

raise a little more preflop (maybe 90-100). That way not EVERY pp in the world will call you. Then, just allin the flop, and claim lame beat if you're up against a set or overpair. That's what I do, anyways [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

P.S. how'd it go with that girl [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]