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#1
09-17-2005, 10:03 AM
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crying call?
hi,
whats a crying call? thanks. 
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#2
09-17-2005, 10:06 AM
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Re: crying call?
Where you are almost CERTAIN that you are beat but call anyway.
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#3
09-18-2005, 06:55 AM
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Re: crying call?
great, thanks.
[img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
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#6
09-20-2005, 10:25 AM
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Re: crying call?
[ QUOTE ]
Why do you call then if you almost certain that you are beaten? Is that still +EV? [/ QUOTE ] If you're getting 10:1 to call or better, you'd have to be 90% certain that you're beaten. At the lower levels, that's an almost impossible level of certainty to have. I've been shown some pretty ugly hands that I was sure were going to beat me. In a pot of 15 BB, you only have to win one out of 15 times for the call to be profitable if you're calling for one bet. I haven't studied this closely, but I'm pretty sure I've been good enough times in big pots for this to be +EV.
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#7
09-20-2005, 10:31 AM
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Re: crying call?
Let's say you're playing $3/$6 Texas Hold'em.
You're at the river and the pot contains 10 big bets - there was good action preflop and on the flop. You have gotten it headsup. You hold: K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Board: K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] You opponent has been check/calling your bets. On the river your opponent bets out instead of checking. This doesn't look very good for you. All you have is second pair against a scary board. Let's say you think there's a 70% chance you will lose to an Ace. And a 20% chance you will lose to a straight. You give yourself a 10% chance of winning this hand. You have to call a single big bet. Here's a way to calculcate the EV of making the call: (.10 * 11BB) + (.90 * -1BB) = 1.1 + ( -0.9 ) = +0.2 BBs So, a crying call in this case is actually +EV. Let's say your opponent is known to bluff the river if he senses weakness. We'll give you a 30% chance now: (.30 * 11BB) + (.70 * -1BB) = 3.3 + ( -0.7 ) = +2.6 BBs So, unless you are very sure you are beaten or the pot is small, a crying call is often proper. I'm sure if I've screwed up the math that someone will correct it. Regards, T
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#8
09-20-2005, 04:08 PM
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Re: crying call?
[ QUOTE ]
Why do you call then if you almost certain that you are beaten? Is that still +EV? [/ QUOTE ] In addition to what others have already pointed out, if you fold on the end to a scary river card too frequently you'll discover you get bet at a lot more frequently when scary cards hit. Even bad players frequently notice someone who will fold on the end too much. Now when they get the urge to bluff they'll be more likely to do so against you. And as HEPFAP points out, worst of all, some players who are really passive and never seem to bluff now may decide to try a bluff, but only against you. That's not to say you should always call - sometimes you can be virtually certain you're beaten and you can save a bet. Also, note that putting in one more bet to call is much more applicable to a heads up scenario on the end than it is multi-way. If one player bets, he could be bluffing, but when another player calls him, it's pretty likely at least one of them has something. edit: Also note that if you can't decide how often to call you're probably doing okay if you just call in the big pots and fold in the small ones. What counts as big? Eh, I don't know. But some combination of your gut instinct and whether the pot is a certain size should guide your decision. Developing a feel for these marginal situations is probably what separates the break-even / small winners from the solid winners.
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