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[johnnycakes]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd rather raise the flop and call a turn checkraise if no paint hits the board. As played, I think you can go ahead to fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why does raising the flop make such a difference in deciding to call or fold the turn c/r?

[Jeffage]

Note that when I wrote that, I missed the gutshot draw. But say the turn was a blank. If he checkraises, he wants you to bet on that ragged board so he can raise you (and he knows it's likely you will bet since you peeled the flop). Since he wants you to bet and call his raise, he probably can beat top pair on the board in which case you'd be drawing to two outs. I think when you're villian and you bet with, say, AK on that flop and get called, you either think the guy is peeling or caught a piece. Usually you won't checkraise the turn b/c the person is either going to take a free card with a hand that can outdraw you or he will bet a legitimate hand which can stand your checkraise. I think most people's tendency with big cards OOP on this turn against one player would be to bet again and hope he folds. I think you are looking VERY bad against a typical checkraise here, particularly against a tight player who probably knows you also play tight. Ok, I wrote that fast, hopefully it makes some sense. Back to work here.

Jeff

[Jeffage]

[ QUOTE ]
Why does raising the flop make such a difference in deciding to call or fold the turn c/r?

[/ QUOTE ]

If you raise the flop, he may checkraise the turn to represent an overpair hoping you fold a smallish pair. If you call the flop, he might think you will raise his turn bet or you're not folding. Then when he checkraises you, it's more likely to be a much stronger hand. It's hard to explain (and I may be wrong), but if someone raises me on that flop after the pre action, I might be less concerned about his holding than if he flat called.

Jeff

[DeathDonkey]

Hi Jeff,

My experience at 10/20 6m is that AK will frequently take precisely this line, as it is a combination value bluff play of sorts. AK is frequently ahead on that board but also would prefer to take down the pot, and sometimes getting a pair to fold is just icing on the cake. I guess I think we are much more likely ahead then the other respondents, but I have not played this (apparently well known) opponent either.

-DeathDonkey

[Jeffage]

A good player who has played a lot of mid limit 6 max should know any piece of that board is probably not folding to a turn checkraise. That's why WHEN HE ACTUALLY CHECKRAISES, it is more likely to be a stronger holding that he wants action on. I'm not saying this is all the time or all players, but it's something I observed. But when he's raised on the flop, he may checkraise the turn...checkraising after he is flat called on the flop is scarier to me if I'm in hero's shoes.

Jeff

[flawless_victory]

[ QUOTE ]
,

My experience at 10/20 6m is that AK will frequently take precisely this line,

[/ QUOTE ]
there is little chance kuka is playing AK like this and this checkraise represents real strength, generally.