My main problem with Moneymaker.

[BusterStacks]

Moneymaker is also a gracious "celebrity", if you ever see him he will shake your hand and talk with you from what I've read in numerous articles. Why do you really care anyway? Nobody wins a tourney without a little bit of luck, it just so happens his luck came against some good players so it was more pronounced. Facts are facts:

a) he won a WSOP
b) he would own the crap out of you in a NL tourney

you are just like that kid on "Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back". Talking **** on the internet. I hope Moneymaker knocks on your door and kicks your ass.

[Stew]

[ QUOTE ]
Moneymaker is also a gracious "celebrity", if you ever see him he will shake your hand and talk with you from what I've read in numerous articles. Why do you really care anyway? Nobody wins a tourney without a little bit of luck, it just so happens his luck came against some good players so it was more pronounced. Facts are facts:

a) he won a WSOP
b) he would own the crap out of you in a NL tourney

you are just like that kid on "Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back". Talking **** on the internet. I hope Moneymaker knocks on your door and kicks your ass.

[/ QUOTE ]

Buster, I have to agree with you on most of this, but I don't think you can necessarily say that B is necessarily true. Sincere might be a good NL tourney player himself and it's not absolute that MM would wipe him out. I mean isn't that what someone would have said if MM made a similar post himself prior to the 2003 WSOP?

The problem I think a couple of posters like Sincere and Al Capone Junior have is that they fail to understand that the internet is a great learning ground for players. They are dealt a ton of hands and no doubt have the ability to hammer down the mathemetical and mechanical aspect of the game. Granted there are a ton of skills that don't transfer from online to B&M play, but there are skills being learned via internet games that are obviously making some players very good in the B&M setting.

[chesspain]

[ QUOTE ]
Moneymaker is also a gracious "celebrity", if you ever see him he will shake your hand and talk with you from what I've read in numerous articles. Why do you really care anyway? Nobody wins a tourney without a little bit of luck, it just so happens his luck came against some good players so it was more pronounced. Facts are facts:

a) he won a WSOP
b) he would own the crap out of you in a NL tourney


[/ QUOTE ]

Don't forget to add:

c) Just finished in top ten in recent WSOP PLO8 tourney


P.S. I found Moneymaker's demeanor during the recent WPT telecast to be polite and classy, compared to the nonsense exhibited by players like Laak, Flack, Helmuth, etc.

[Syntax]

[ QUOTE ]
I still can't figure out for the life of me why every time I make a post on here I get personal attacks?

[/ QUOTE ]

Please correct me if I am wrong, but weren't you the one that started a thread personally attacking Chris Moneymaker? WTF?

[Dilbert]

You are Sincerely warped. Even Mason has posted that Chris is a good poker player. Anyone who wins the WSOP has been favored by luck in the process (including Greg and Stu). I sense envy.

[joker122]

[ QUOTE ]
I thought this was America?

[/ QUOTE ]

That's where you're wrong. You're in 2+2. We're an independent entity.

[Sincere]

Chris Moneymaker is a public figure/celebrity, and I wasnt attacking him personally. I was just saying he is given to much credit as a player. No different than if someone were debating football and claiming Michael Vick was over-rated as a player, which I've seen debated on message boards time and time again. No different than debating if Kobe is as good as MJ? He is a public celebrity, that is the difference.

[SaintAces]

I still can't figure out for the life of me how [ QUOTE ]

My main problem with Sincere is that he spent 10 minutes of his time writing up yet another post which basically paints Moneymaker as a lucky bastard who doesn't deserve any of this when the fact of the matter is that he is a SOLID NL tourney player who has a damn bracelet. Your time is better spent trying to improve your own game rather than worrying about whether CM is "good" or "great."

[/ QUOTE ]
is a personal insult


please elaborate

[balt999]

I think Envy is a huge factor is Sincere's problem with Moneymaker. It's human nature to be envious of someone who's accomplished something a lot of people dream of.

[Ilovephysics]

<shameless music reference to quote "What About Bob?">

Sincere: Best way I can think about it is that it would be akin to saying {insert name here} pop star can't sing worth a dime... The problem is, there are always going to be those people who do enjoy their music that will use the logic "Well, if you can sing better, why don't you!" against your claim... which is basically one argument that you simply can't win...

As the great Bob Wiley once said, "There are those who like Neil Diamond, and those who don't."
</shameless music reference to quote "What About Bob?">

I think the same holds with MM and poker... It is very easy for people to rip on your post simply because, let's face it, not many people have won a WSOP main event... That's not exactly fair to you, and it isn't fair for anyone, really... heck, it was hard enough to beat 200 people, let alone 2,500... A lot of lesser-name pitchers like Tom Browning have thrown perfect games in baseball, but so have the likes of Nolan Ryan and Randy Johnson... I think it is too soon on MM... and maybe there are a lot of players like MM out there who just need that one big break to go their way...

In any event, think we are all smart enough to understand your point: I.e., If MM finished 37th at the WSOP instead of 1st, perhaps we would have never heard from him again... That may be a fair statement. Winning a few million dollars may make anyone think twice about their current job, too.. Heck, I saw that Robert Varkoni's wife made a final table on some recent Fox Sports telecast event, too... Would she have been playing had her husband not won the WSOP? Who knows? And sure, perhaps winning begets winning... (or just having a few million in the bank so you can play every tournament under the sun until you finally win a few)...